Posts by debator

67

Bible says God confused peoples languages at Babel....is this childish nonsense?

by Witness 007 in

yeah so in genesis we read how people began building a tower which would reach up to jehovah in heaven....must have been damn tall....rather then just stop them, god changes everyones language.....one guys speakin french.....another speakin russian and so on!

can't finish the tower now can they!!

this is not very scientific......does anyone believe this is how languages got started???

debator

Hi leolaia

I see we both agree that there are many unique languages and that some "change" happened. It is allowable that some isolated languages didn't go further than one group that then died out having no reason for the language itself to evolve much beyond the first expression of it with no interaction with other languages or development beyond the original form. The bible only says God made a multiplicity of languages not saying more than this on how they then evolved within themselves. I prefer the bible explanation since it is an explanation. You show we have these many languages but you give no explanation for them.

You say they "are more ancient" than the bible account but that is just estimated opinion on information that is scrappy at best and very subjective changing from scholar to scholar. You agree it is in "recent history" The bible account was writen by inspiration many 100's years after these events happened. So the dating of the bible being written is not applicable.

Your methodology does not disagree with the bible account. The bible says God made us a diverse language people and this is what we are. Darwinism can offer no explanation for this, it has to fitted in as an assumption of unexplained fact.

35

I feel so discourage

by Desilusionnee in

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debator

Hi Desi

I hope this is not the only reason you left as it isn't a valid one to judge them on. All Prophecies are subjective. We are given prophecy to try and undertsand, in this case Jesus says "generation" and we have to try to decern it. Moses was "inspired" and so had that added accuracy. The Anointed in this time do not have the gift of "inspiration" when we look at Bible prophecies we are to decern their meanings so as to be "ready" and "on watch" God does not expect a level of accuracy from us that you and others on here seem too.

Did noah know when the rainwaters would come he only knew they would be soon in fact the Bible mentiones 120 years but not that God said this to noah.

Genesis 6:3

3 Then Jehovah said, "My Spirit will not contend with [a] man forever, for he is mortal [b] ; his days will be a hundred and twenty years."

it was after he said this that he saw 500 year old noah.

Genesis 5:32 (New International Version)

32 After Noah was 500 years old, he became the father of Shem, Ham and Japheth.

Genesis 6:8

8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of Jehovah

and yet Noah himself was 600 when the flood actually happenned clearly waiting many, many years but building the ark getting ready for when it did finally happen.

Genesis 7:6

6 Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters came on the earth.

again the christians didn't know when jerusalem would be destroyed.

Prophecies were deliberately designed to be obscure and need reference to the WHOLE Bible to be understood with any kind of accuracy. Hense why it is predicted we will need "refinement" until the end.

Daniel 11:35
Some of the wise will stumble, so that they may be refined, purified and made spotless until the time of the end, for it will still come at the appointed time.

Jesus himself had to explain which prophecies he fulfilled.

Luke 24:27
And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

showing it had not already been seen. Prophecy is only 100% in hindsight.

Here is the choice laid before the anointed or indeed any group that claim to be christians....

Should we try to decern prophecy knowing we will not be know the full truth untill after it is fulfilled?

should we ignore it for these same reasons?

should we bury it unused as the majority of christendom has?

should we let all our flock have differing opinions (allow divisions) and not guide them to agreement?

1 Corinthians 1:10
[ Divisions in the Church ] I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.

The answer to all these is why I have no problem with going with any current understanding of Bible prophecy. Prophecy is a unique part of the bible and easy to point accusing fingers at. But note all these nay-sayers to the current "generation" understanding offer no alternative explanation for this prophecy.

67

Bible says God confused peoples languages at Babel....is this childish nonsense?

by Witness 007 in

yeah so in genesis we read how people began building a tower which would reach up to jehovah in heaven....must have been damn tall....rather then just stop them, god changes everyones language.....one guys speakin french.....another speakin russian and so on!

can't finish the tower now can they!!

this is not very scientific......does anyone believe this is how languages got started???

debator

The Bible account is substantiated by evidence from languages themselves.

"However, the existing state of human language nevertheless suggests that the variety of dialects and sub-languages has developed from a relatively few (perhaps even less than twenty) languages. These original ‘proto-languages’—from which all others allegedly have developed—were distinct within themselves, with no previous ancestral language. "

http://www.trueorigin.org/language01.asp

There are more on this showing that several unique languages originally formed a basis from which the multiplicity of languages we have today have branched out from. This is the reality of the bible account being true. Darwinism only allows for one proto-language which has been disproved by the evidence of several original proto-languages unique in themselves.

To be honest the reality of so many languages proves the bible so the burden of proof lies on those that say it is a myth when the evidence points to it being true.

Hi Leolaia

Your point only shows that there are other accounts of the same thing from other sources though not inspired. A similar situation found in the many flood accounts that are from many disparate nations. Obviously your point is to put more accuracy on these rather than the bible account but that is only your opinion. When given a choice of two or more, for me the bible account gives more factual answers that are checkably accurate, as apposed to mythology from the uninspired nations that only have racial memory of these events to draw from so similarity but not accuracy.

68

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-11-10 WT Study (WOMEN SUBMIT)

by blondie in

jw
friends

comments you will not hear at the 07-11-10 wt study (may 15, 2010, pages 12-16)(women submit).

jehovah has established the orderly sequence that the apostle paul mentioned when he wrote that "the head of every man is the christ" and "the head of the christ is god.

what man is their head?.

debator

Hi blondie

Fair enough, I wasn't going to post anymore and do not intend to after this one. I didn't realise your comments thread only allowed for people that agreed with your opinions! Let the readers judge for themselves from the official link I posted and the heavily edited wt you did, the actual truth of the points.

If like Mrs jones they prefer to believe in hearsay that is their choice rather than official checkable policy.

http://www.watchtower.org/e/20020208/article_03.htm

68

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-11-10 WT Study (WOMEN SUBMIT)

by blondie in

jw
friends

comments you will not hear at the 07-11-10 wt study (may 15, 2010, pages 12-16)(women submit).

jehovah has established the orderly sequence that the apostle paul mentioned when he wrote that "the head of every man is the christ" and "the head of the christ is god.

what man is their head?.

debator

Hi blondie

Please don't rewrite my words for me.

I know of a few sisters that have separated due to abuse and had the elders support in this. The facts on the table are that in support of Bible principle separation is allowed when a wife is abused. Mistakes have been made by individual elders and as with all these situations the mistakes are remembered easily but not when things work out.

I will not judge witnesses on hearsay. You implied abused women could not separate in your first post I simply posted the facts that they are allowed to separate.

68

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-11-10 WT Study (WOMEN SUBMIT)

by blondie in

jw
friends

comments you will not hear at the 07-11-10 wt study (may 15, 2010, pages 12-16)(women submit).

jehovah has established the orderly sequence that the apostle paul mentioned when he wrote that "the head of every man is the christ" and "the head of the christ is god.

what man is their head?.

debator

Hi blondie

Your out-of-context scripture on Jesus specifically talking about Jewish leaders aside.

Official writing is our position as witnesses on these biblically drawn principles. If individual elders do no do this then that is on their personal conscience.

I think you are also mixing older cultures with newer ones.

In times gone by marriage was strongly part of society now it is being filtered out on the whole. People did not leave marriages lightly then as they do now.

You seem to use a lot of "this maybe what elders say" but then point out personal generalised wrongdoings from individual elders (that are not our written policy drawn from the bible and it's principles) as things to cite against witnesses as a whole. but isn't this just supporting witnesses viewpoint that individuals can still act imperfectly against Bible principles?

20

Help with refining these questions for JW's

by S EIGHT in

i am slowly building a list of questions designed to help jw's "think" about the "truth".

please let me know if you think they can be refined or added to.. cheers,.

1. specifically, what was jesus looking for in 1918 when he looked upon the earth to identify his faithful and discrete slave?.

debator

Why do you have to give people questions on here to confront witnesses with? Couldn't they think of questions for themselves?

68

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-11-10 WT Study (WOMEN SUBMIT)

by blondie in

jw
friends

comments you will not hear at the 07-11-10 wt study (may 15, 2010, pages 12-16)(women submit).

jehovah has established the orderly sequence that the apostle paul mentioned when he wrote that "the head of every man is the christ" and "the head of the christ is god.

what man is their head?.

debator

Hi titus

I'm well. I'll be honest I do not come here that often.

68

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-11-10 WT Study (WOMEN SUBMIT)

by blondie in

jw
friends

comments you will not hear at the 07-11-10 wt study (may 15, 2010, pages 12-16)(women submit).

jehovah has established the orderly sequence that the apostle paul mentioned when he wrote that "the head of every man is the christ" and "the head of the christ is god.

what man is their head?.

debator

DIVORCE AND SEPARATION

God, the Originator of marriage, designed it to be a permanent union. But is there any Scriptural reason for a person to divorce his or her mate—and one that would allow for the possibility of remarrying? Jesus addressed this matter by declaring: "I say to you that whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication, and marries another commits adultery." (Matthew 19:9) Sexual infidelity by a mate is the only ground for a divorce that will allow the innocent mate to remarry.

In addition, the Bible's words at 1 Corinthians 7:10-16, while encouraging marriage mates to stay together, allow for separation. Some, after trying very hard to preserve their marriage, feel they have no choice but to separate. What can be acceptable Scriptural grounds for such a step?

One is willful nonsupport. When getting married, a husband assumes the responsibility of providing for his wife and children. The man who willfully fails to provide the material necessities of life "has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith." (1 Timothy 5:8) So separation is possible.

Another is extreme physical abuse. So then, if a mate physically abuses his wife, the victim may separate. (Galatians 5:19-21; Titus 1:7) "Anyone loving violence [God's] soul certainly hates."—Psalm 11:5.

Another ground for separation is the absolute endangerment of a believer's spirituality—one's relationship with God. When a mate's opposition, perhaps including physical restraint, has made it impossible to pursue true worship and has imperiled the believer's spirituality, then some believers have found it necessary to separate.*—Matthew 22:37; Acts 5:27-32.

However, if divorce is pursued under such circumstances, one would not be free to enter a new marriage. According to the Bible, the only legitimate ground for divorce that permits remarriage is adultery or "fornication."—Matthew 5:32.

http://www.watchtower.org/e/20020208/article_03.htm

13

"Neither be called leaders" vs "Obey your leaders"

by Bonnie_Clyde in

i'm trying to harmonize matt.

23:10 with hebrews 13:17. any thoughts?

or is this a contradiction?.

debator

Hi wobble

Paul was an inspired writer! his words were considered scripture by the other writers.

2 Peter 3:16
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

A governing structure can work. It's only men's imperfection that makes it hard. All the writers recognise this including John in revelation that fortells it.

Revelation 5:10 (Amplified Bible)

10 And You have made them a kingdom (royal race) and priests to our God, and they shall reign [as kings] over the earth! (A)