i'm afraid of starting a new post because i've stepped on a few feet here with my last post... but i still love you guys.. last night i went home to find my wife and her friend on the couch with the bible, ready to show me how i'm wrong and exercising "apostate thinking".
my wife said, "i am unable to fight you with the bible because you know more than me about it.
but k** knows more and will be able to show you how you are wrong.. so my wife went into the other room so as not to be stumbled by my discussion.
Hi Jwoods
Since the bible gives many examples of people called prophets that didn't actually prophecy you are being dishonest with yourself.
Hi Dan
They didn't just pull those dates out of the air they drew them from bible chronology. haggai has no chronology in it. So you would have to ask where they got the date from?
i'm afraid of starting a new post because i've stepped on a few feet here with my last post... but i still love you guys.. last night i went home to find my wife and her friend on the couch with the bible, ready to show me how i'm wrong and exercising "apostate thinking".
my wife said, "i am unable to fight you with the bible because you know more than me about it.
but k** knows more and will be able to show you how you are wrong.. so my wife went into the other room so as not to be stumbled by my discussion.
Hi Olin
Now olin print out the whole article which I'm sure showed how they used bible chronology inspired of God to decern those dates and so could say they are from Jehovah.
Using God's word the bible including bible prophecies and chronology is not a sin but a command. Even if we make mistakes we have to be humble enough to be refined when this happens.
Daniel 11:35
Some of the wise will stumble, so that they may be refined, purified and made spotless until the time of the end, for it will still come at the appointed time.
You ask an extroadinary level of accuracy from the witnesses that simply isn't realistic or even biblical for God's people and never was.
i'm afraid of starting a new post because i've stepped on a few feet here with my last post... but i still love you guys.. last night i went home to find my wife and her friend on the couch with the bible, ready to show me how i'm wrong and exercising "apostate thinking".
my wife said, "i am unable to fight you with the bible because you know more than me about it.
but k** knows more and will be able to show you how you are wrong.. so my wife went into the other room so as not to be stumbled by my discussion.
HI dan and Jwoods.
Please do not mix being a prophet with false prophecy.
Did all prophets do prophecy?
Miriam moses sister was called a prophet yet there are no recorded prophecies from her among others .
Again though you are trying to redefine the already clearly defined biblical way of seeing false prophecy and it clearly says they have to claim to be able to say the very inspired words of Jehovah.
With regard to 1914
"We are not prophesying; we are merely giving our surmises ... We do not even aver that there is no mistake in our interpretation of prophecy and our calculations of chronology. We have merely laid these before you, leaving it for each to exercise his own faith or doubt in respect to them"
Zion's Watch Tower, January 1, 1908 (reprint) page 4110
You are trying to condemn them for surmising bible prophecy something we are told to do by Jehovah himself. It's a clear case of damned if you and damned if you don't in your eyes.
You are building a case against from your own definitions not the bibles. You are shutting the door for people to use God's biblical prophecies for fear of being called false prophets simply by using it and so just burying it unused in the sand out of fear.
i'm afraid of starting a new post because i've stepped on a few feet here with my last post... but i still love you guys.. last night i went home to find my wife and her friend on the couch with the bible, ready to show me how i'm wrong and exercising "apostate thinking".
my wife said, "i am unable to fight you with the bible because you know more than me about it.
but k** knows more and will be able to show you how you are wrong.. so my wife went into the other room so as not to be stumbled by my discussion.
Hi Jwoods
Please do not put words in my mouth. I am saying nothing of the sort. I am saying they simply do not do prophecy. They only have understandings from already written Bible prophecies and chronology this is not the same.
If someone writes a complicated map for someone else to use with written instructions that need them to use a compass and recognise certain landmarks as they travel to a specific destination. The person that then uses this map even if they make mistakes on it are not writers of the map they are only users of the map. And we are told to use it. If we don't use it we will never get to our destination.
i'm afraid of starting a new post because i've stepped on a few feet here with my last post... but i still love you guys.. last night i went home to find my wife and her friend on the couch with the bible, ready to show me how i'm wrong and exercising "apostate thinking".
my wife said, "i am unable to fight you with the bible because you know more than me about it.
but k** knows more and will be able to show you how you are wrong.. so my wife went into the other room so as not to be stumbled by my discussion.
Hi sir82
Both Jews and christians understood this easily. They knew the difference between a prophet hearing words directly from God himself and that is how the bible itself got written and God's People being guided/directed by holy spirit from Jehovah himself. The bible itself is the "sword of the spirit" if we listen to the bible we are directed by God's spirit.
Ephesians 6:17
Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
Was every single Jew inspired? was every single Christian inspired? but they as a people where under Jehovah's direction.
Isaiah 48:17
This is what Jehovah says— your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: "I am Jehovah your God, who teaches you what is best for you, who directs you in the way you should go.
You are going from the specific to the general trying to redefine the specific into the general.
i'm afraid of starting a new post because i've stepped on a few feet here with my last post... but i still love you guys.. last night i went home to find my wife and her friend on the couch with the bible, ready to show me how i'm wrong and exercising "apostate thinking".
my wife said, "i am unable to fight you with the bible because you know more than me about it.
but k** knows more and will be able to show you how you are wrong.. so my wife went into the other room so as not to be stumbled by my discussion.
HI Jwoods
I am not saying they are not accountable. Jehovah makes All shepherds from any people that have said they are Followers oif Jesus are accountable for how they teach and govern the flock under there care.
Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.
But unlike us God does not expect perfection from them but he does expect us to do his will which includes using the prophecy he had wrote for us in these times.
Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
my mom is addicted to the wts.
i've recently brought up the many false prophecies and she calls almost every week to show me new things that the society has said about false prophets and how they are not one.. the latest was the account where king david wanted to build god a temple.
he told nathan the prophet about his idea and nathan basically said, well god is with you, you should do it.
Hi Brotherdan
You are misunderstanding my point.
They simply haven't made prophecies for them to be considered false. Understandings from ALREADY written bible prophecy from the bible is simply not prophecy, All of the dates that witnesses use/d are simply understandings drawn from bible prophecies and chronology .."times, time and half" " this generation" etc. Unless you are saying that the bible writers themselves that wrote these words where false prophets?
i'm afraid of starting a new post because i've stepped on a few feet here with my last post... but i still love you guys.. last night i went home to find my wife and her friend on the couch with the bible, ready to show me how i'm wrong and exercising "apostate thinking".
my wife said, "i am unable to fight you with the bible because you know more than me about it.
but k** knows more and will be able to show you how you are wrong.. so my wife went into the other room so as not to be stumbled by my discussion.
She should have used deut 18 which is very clear what make someone a false prophet, witnesses simply don't qualify.
Deuteronomy 18:18-22
18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account. 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."
21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Jehovah?" 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of Jehovah does not take place or come true, that is a message Jehovah has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.
This is the bible set understanding of inspired prophecy. Witnesses have never claimed to hear and speak words directly from Jehovah. they have never claimed inspiration!
All our understandings come from reasoning on already written bible prophecies and chronology. This is not the same. And you cannot twist it to be the same.
I should warn you that you are correct that Witnesses may get disturb by your learned rhetoric from these forums. It is very unoriginal especially quoting CoC arguments and it will show you up as someone that has bought all the apostate propaganda hook,line and sinker.
All the things you hear from people that are against witnesses can be reasoned on and seen for the faulty reasoning they are, especially against the bible's teachings which are clear.
I am speaking frankly to you and I hope you don't take offense but you words show you have made a commitment to the propaganda you have heard off here and are now repeating it outside these forums and so it is already having real consequences in your life and may lead to more.
my mom is addicted to the wts.
i've recently brought up the many false prophecies and she calls almost every week to show me new things that the society has said about false prophets and how they are not one.. the latest was the account where king david wanted to build god a temple.
he told nathan the prophet about his idea and nathan basically said, well god is with you, you should do it.
HI brotherdan
Bible writers, Jews and Christians understood the difference between claiming "inspiration" prophecy directly from Jehovah or just giving credit to God for everything in humbleness.
2 Peter 1:21 (New International Version)
21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
Trying to undertstand this already written bible prophecy and chronology is not a sin it is a directive. The sin is to bury it unused in fear of Jehovah when it has been given to us specifically to use.
You are hiding the fact from yourself that you are redefining bible words in your need to blacken witnesses.
No one is ever going to persuade me that using bible chronology and prophecies are is wrongdoing even if we can and do make mistakes on them. We are commanded to use them come what may.
my mom is addicted to the wts.
i've recently brought up the many false prophecies and she calls almost every week to show me new things that the society has said about false prophets and how they are not one.. the latest was the account where king david wanted to build god a temple.
he told nathan the prophet about his idea and nathan basically said, well god is with you, you should do it.
Hi brotherdan
Is it a lie if the person believes it themselves? Mistaken? yes, Lie? no.
While this history lesson from over 90 years ago when we were a very young faith still groping our way out of false christendom teachings is interesting. It is also reasuring if this is how far back in time you have to go for your slings and arrows.
