Posts by debator

272

Grace According to JW's. Your thoughts will be appreciated.

by Lily Pie in

hi, i'm a bit of a lurker on this site occasionally, just to help me understand my jw relative.

i am so curious to ask this question, but i fear asking a practicing jw, because you know, they can be a tad evasive, and maybe defensive too.

lutherans say.

debator

Hi lily

Thank you for your reply.

My own personal opinion of the use of "Grace" outside of witnesses is that it has lost it's meaning and become a bit of a label. Demonstrated when I asked various Christians what it meant and they couldn't answer. They know "grace" is needed and we as Christians benefit from it but beyond I think they have become faulty on it. It's like the use of the word "charity" instead of "love" many people think that it is a different word (and it is in modern usage) but biblically they are the same word.

272

Grace According to JW's. Your thoughts will be appreciated.

by Lily Pie in

hi, i'm a bit of a lurker on this site occasionally, just to help me understand my jw relative.

i am so curious to ask this question, but i fear asking a practicing jw, because you know, they can be a tad evasive, and maybe defensive too.

lutherans say.

debator

Hi lilly pie

I am a practising Witness and we would welcome your questions as someone that has taken the time to consider what we talk about.

Firstly let me concur that we too think "faith" comes first and produces "works" by it's existence. So it isn't faith OR works but that a person having faith inspires works in them hense why James can say.

James 2:17 (New International Version)

17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action (works), is dead.

Your next confusion is that grace has become a word which is used as a noun rather than looking at what it means so we goto meaning.

Grace = undeserved kindness.

Jesus paid the ransom price we simply couldn't as imperfect humans. So because he paid the price by his sacrifice we can gain the reward through this but this shows it is by an act of undeserved kindness/grace that we receive this reward because we couldn't pay the price ourselves. It took God's son coming to earth becoming a perfect man to save us.

You mention your dislike of us preaching to people but we take this as a serious commision from Jesus.

Mark 16:15
He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.

18

500 Hundred Alien Planets -- Wow !

by Rabbit in

i know this doesn't have anything 'jw' about it, but, i think it's pretty cool.

our universe -- is really, really...big !.

life is out there - somewhere.

debator

I'd have to see an Alien waving his green arms or antena at us from his planet for me to believe in them. I am not into wishful thinking being read into discovery of planets in a Universe that is...well a Universe! It is comforting they found planets rather than green cheese.

143

How do Jehovah's Witnesses Explain This Fossil Record?

by sabastious in

according to jws, evolution is false.

so how do they explain these human-like fossils?.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/human_evolution.

debator

Hi unshackled

You are writing cheques this thread can't cash in.

I think people either believe in God or they don't hense why Atheists are defined by what they don't believe in A-theism.

I don't think Darwnism or the fossil record has been proved by this debate. It has been admitted the fossil record is extremely incomplete and also that Darwinism is an ever-changing creature happy to throw in the bin out-dated past proofs for a new set of possibilities. Embryonic fin was a good example of this.

If you look into supporters of "Evolution" itself you can usually pin them down to admitting adaption within species is their "proof" and not much else usually Darwinists tend to fall into the trap of thinking disproving the Bible means proving their position which is simply not the case. The Bible doesn't make claims to be a scientific Manual. Our belief in God is from more reasons than just looking at processes in nature.

44

"We're not here to debate or argue"

by sabastious in

as a jw i was always taught "never to get into debate or argue with householders.".

you know what is interesting about that?.

the message i had when i went to your door was essentially "hello, what ever your current belief is... is wrong.

debator

I do not class these forums as ministry but simply helping people who mistakingly come on here thinking they will get information off real witnesses and find themselves in deep water with ex-Jws.

The problem with debating is you have two people in entrenched positions defending their positions probably neither will changed their mind but these forums are not just about them they also have a lot of visitors that just read the forum debates and decide from there. I post for these and not for obdurate ex-Jws that bitterly hate what they once loved and defended. What do they say about love and hate being both sides of the same coin?

44

"We're not here to debate or argue"

by sabastious in

as a jw i was always taught "never to get into debate or argue with householders.".

you know what is interesting about that?.

the message i had when i went to your door was essentially "hello, what ever your current belief is... is wrong.

debator

Jesus said it himself about those not interested "shake the dust off your feet off them". Jesus felt no need to get into debates or arguments with pharasees he simply gave them his position and they accepted it or rejected it. We follow his example in this.

143

How do Jehovah's Witnesses Explain This Fossil Record?

by sabastious in

according to jws, evolution is false.

so how do they explain these human-like fossils?.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/human_evolution.

debator

Fossil record is extremely incomplete so cannot be called proof.

DNA are the complex designed building blocks of life. They prove an intelligent designer.

Adaption within a species cannot solve the massive problem of no species jumping. An animal can adapt to it's environment as much as it likes it still remains of the kind/animal type it is.

Random chance mutation is crumbling under the weight of the increasing complexity found under a microscope

11

Can I request my own Disfellowshiping?

by Joshnaz in

jw
friends

just want to know, and how to do it.

i've been out of the religion for 12 years now and just want a reason for my parents to not talk to me, seeing how they don't anyhow i don't think it'll hurt any..

debator

You paid for your 70 year old devout witness Parents to visit and from a good start (of wanted keep things amicable on the witness front) things slipped and then 2 days in you off-loaded apostate/anti-witness information on them from this site. Making their stay as your family and guests massively uncomfortable?

I think you need to do a lot of damage limitation on this one, big apologies and maybe having a working agreement on what happens when you come together as a family in future. Your parents will be feeling upset and hurt and possibly regretting things said in the heat moment too.

19

Would WT-Fantasy Videos Keep Kids in the Truth?

by compound complex in

jw
friends

if the society put out theocratic warfare videos, it would really help jw youths stick around, imho.

in place of commercial videos that are violent and suggestive, wt-sanctioned videos would supply a viable, healthy alternative.

accordingly, concerned and thoughtful witness parents could participate with their little warriors in theocratic warfare videos as virtual ot prophets wipe out the dread canaanites, zimri and cozbi take love to new heights and the beasts of revelation devour their quarry .... and the parents count their time.. any other thoughts regarding family worship night and related meeting parts?

debator

Give me tame anyday. We do not need to train our kids to need extremes from an early age to stimulate their senses. Where does it end? When does bordom with the violence of a video game or movie then to progress to expressing that violence around us for greater stimulation?

Quick, cheap, shallow sensory overload packaged as entertainment stops our children having the ability to appreciate slower deeper more constructive enjoyments.

If a child eats Macdonalds all his life would he ever be able to appreciate a variety of well-balanced nutritional meals?

It is a known fact that children are becoming less socially adept as they miss out on important childhood development skills., including functioning with others because of an enclosed environment were, TV, computers, X-boxes have replaced social interaction with others.

143

How do Jehovah's Witnesses Explain This Fossil Record?

by sabastious in

according to jws, evolution is false.

so how do they explain these human-like fossils?.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/human_evolution.

debator

Hi Sab

Thats why I call it Darwinism. "Evolution" is simply a pot that gets everything thrown into it. Species adaption within their kinds is the proven bit and the Bible supports that in fact talks about it. Abiogenesis is unproven, species jumping is unproven, why we can have living Fossils and the end product animals like humans both alive at the same time but none of the stages inbetween.

"Sludge to man" in a billion years is not proven.