I think the 2012 hype shows the power of movies. Before the movie came out no one thought about 2012 as a date. When you research the Mayan history they have other dates that go beyond 2012 so it really is just a made for viewers date.
debator
JoinedPosts by debator
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2012 Prophecy
by brotherdan innow, i know that the 2012 issue has been blown out of proportion.
and i know all the reasons that believing in them are wrong.
but has anyone else noticed a growth in this type of conversation?
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Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.
by Scott77 in"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.
they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.
a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?
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debator
Hi JnfB
My motivations are my own as clearly are yours (as someone who say they area current witness and elder on here). I use the bible in line with our teachers of the bible for my answers and if I do it badly I apologise. I would hope that many on here especially non-Jws are willing to goto our main website for better information than just my limited points or the heavily biased post of some off here against witnesses.
I think it helps that a good lot show they have rejected God and the bible as well as witnesses and People can see their arguments are more against a belief in Jehovah and his word and secondary against witnesses who follow Jehovah.
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Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.
by Scott77 in"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.
they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.
a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?
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debator
ATM I am discussing this topic with you JnfB and elderlite. you are both by your own admittance current elders and Jehovah's witnesses niether of you are disfellowshipped?
Are you calling yourselves bad association?
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The False Prophet Nathan?
by brotherdan inmy mom is addicted to the wts.
i've recently brought up the many false prophecies and she calls almost every week to show me new things that the society has said about false prophets and how they are not one.. the latest was the account where king david wanted to build god a temple.
he told nathan the prophet about his idea and nathan basically said, well god is with you, you should do it.
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debator
HI donny
You are right but then they are not making "false" predictions the word "false" is one you use. For witnesses these are just current understandings drawn from harmonising watched for Bible prophecies against the events around us. "Keeping watch" for these signs and fulfillments.
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Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.
by Scott77 in"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.
they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.
a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?
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debator
Hi elderlite
All the documents you produced back my position they are warnings that involve self-regulation. None of them say confess to the elders. They warn us personally (And on wide ranging internet usage not just iinternet association in all it's forms and yes if my coming on here led me to have doubts or start leading a double-life as a witness trying to serve two masters. I have only myself to blame.
Matthew 6:24
"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other.Atm I am answering issues that may help those that want to hear both sides.
Would this be easier if this was just an ex-Jw forum or an apostate one where you can make sure you only hear one tune of your own choosing?
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The False Prophet Nathan?
by brotherdan inmy mom is addicted to the wts.
i've recently brought up the many false prophecies and she calls almost every week to show me new things that the society has said about false prophets and how they are not one.. the latest was the account where king david wanted to build god a temple.
he told nathan the prophet about his idea and nathan basically said, well god is with you, you should do it.
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debator
Hi brotherdan
1 Peter 4:11
If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God. If anyone serves, he should do it with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.You are confusing humbly giving credit to God with claiming inspiration from God.
Hi bohm
Whatever rutherford believed (I do not wish to be sidetracked onto the side issues) it would have pertained to already written inspired prophecy in the bible. This is not the same as claiming the ability to able to do inspired utterances from God yourself. We are told to decern already written prophecy to see if it is getting fulfilled so as to be prepared. We were given it to use it.
Are you saying we should not try and decern/understand already written bible prophecy?
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God's forced PLOT point (which just doesn't make sense!)
by Terry inthe bifurcation of christianity's dealing with the "plot" that drives god's "plan" is never more explicitly revealed as not logically reasoned out than when it comes to the "good" and the "evil" being judged.. what is the point in judging "evil" if god is going to simply call the same sinful, imperfect man "good" who confesses christ?.
it makes about as much sense as putting a zero on top of a zero and calling it 8.. justification is nothing more than calling evil "good" by reframing the context.
sin kills man.
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debator
We do not gain salvation because we are free of sin. Jesus being sinless meant he could not be left dead when he was killed. His sacrifice was that of a perfect man and so by freely giving up that life as a perfect man on earth he then opens a way for us to gain salvation.
Our sinful state is not an excuse, We can still recognise good and evil and strive to fight against our sinful state. Without Jesus sacrifice we only had the judgement of death on us. But Jesus's sacrifice allows us to gain life.
Romans 2:11-13 (New International Version)
11 For God does not show favoritism.
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
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The False Prophet Nathan?
by brotherdan inmy mom is addicted to the wts.
i've recently brought up the many false prophecies and she calls almost every week to show me new things that the society has said about false prophets and how they are not one.. the latest was the account where king david wanted to build god a temple.
he told nathan the prophet about his idea and nathan basically said, well god is with you, you should do it.
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debator
Witnesses have never claimed to do inspired prophecy. This is a requirement if you want to qualify them as a false prophets who cliam divine inspiration/direct words from God falsely.
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Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.
by Scott77 in"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.
they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.
a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?
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debator
Hi Just n from Bethel
I must admit your position is confusing? You say you are a practising elder who comes on this site then condemn yourself for being on here?
My position is not as forceful as yours I have never gone on ex-Jw sites but this isn't one. It is a Jehovah's witness site by it's title and blog and witnesses do come on here. They may get a surprise by the amount of ex-Jws and non-Jws on here as I was but then we defend the faith as well as debate with non-Jws that wish to debate on certain topics and want to know the witness bible understanding on it.
From our literature I get the point that we are warned against these things and this is a self-regulating thing. But I accept you disagree.
Hi Gayle
If you do not wish to read my posts I fully accept your choice. But this is a Jehovah's witness forum why would you be surprised to find witnesses on it? rather than an ex-Jw forum that probably doesn't allow current witnesses on them?
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Appears to be another case of "shifting the burden."
by garyneal inmy wife and i was talking about one of the talks that they had concerning marriage and how each spouse is suppose to put the other spouse first and that as long as both spouses did this, it would work out for the greater good of the marriage.. i agreed but added a point in that sometimes, either because of human frailties on the part of your spouse or some other reason, you spouse may not be fulfilling all your needs and sometimes you will just need to take care of your own needs.
i tried to emphasize that this did not mean placing your needs ahead of the marriage or family or even your spouses, but simply sometimes we need to take care of our own needs and not always expect the spouse to do it for us.. she did not like the 'tone' and 'attitude' of my remark and when i brought up an example, it really set her off.. the example had to do with birthdays.
since my wife is a witness, obviously she will not be throwing me a party, at least don't expect her too.
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debator
Hi psacra
Paul was talking about specific Jewish celebrations that Jehovah himself had allowed mentioning sabbath this is not the same as taking on pagan practicies which has always been condemned biblically.
1 Peter 4:3-4 (New International Version)
3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. 4 They think it strange that you do not plunge with them into the same flood of dissipation, and they heap abuse on you.
Paul makes it clear there is no allowance for taking on or to keep doing pagan ways and that part of being a Christian is giving them up. That includes pagan celebrations now that would include drunkeness etc.