Posts by debator

144

The False Prophet Nathan?

by brotherdan in

my mom is addicted to the wts.

i've recently brought up the many false prophecies and she calls almost every week to show me new things that the society has said about false prophets and how they are not one.. the latest was the account where king david wanted to build god a temple.

he told nathan the prophet about his idea and nathan basically said, well god is with you, you should do it.

debator

Hi coffee black

The greek scriptures clearly set out an organised structured christian people with all sorts of jobs/gifts including leadership as part of making it function and work.

Romans 12:8
if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

How we function as a ordered group supporting each other including specifically our shepherds is very much a bible issue concerning ourselves not to be ignored.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Ignoring these instructions and directions for our people is foolishness at best, being willfully blind at worst.

60

Why are you here, Bane?

by dgp in

jw
friends

i was wondering.

not that i have anyone in mind (except for bane).

what motivates an active and zealous jehovah's witness to come to a website like this one and insult everyone for being apostates, et cetera?

debator

Hi Bane

I agree with you Bane I find the name of this site very dishonest and wonder how many innocent witnesses wandered on to this site and got drawn into the propaganda against witnesses that the majority do on here.

18

WTs SWARM airplane renamed Silver Fox and deployed to Iraq's battlefields

by Gerard in

update on swarm:

most of you are aware that the wtbts owns stocks on at least three companies dedicated to provide rand cam engine technology to the u.s. navy.

the engine in question has been mounted on the spy plane previously known as swarm (smart war-fighter array of re-configurable modules).

debator

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/277981

After looking into this matter when it was first raised, we found that none of the legal corporations used by the Governing Body in caring for Kingdom interests own stock in the Rand Cam Corporation or any associate company involved in developing the diesel engine in question. The facts are that two brothers originally involved in inventing and developing the engine made a private agreement years ago (of which we were not notified) to send a portion of any profits realized from the venture to the Watch Tower Society as a gift for its worldwide work. Subsequently, circumstances required that rights to ownership and developing the engine be transferred to a holding company not controlled by them. The Watch Tower Society was erroneously listed as a stockholder in information published by the holding company, and this error has now been corrected. Hence, the charge is totally false. Moreover, the Watch Tower Society has received no contributions as a result of the original private agreement made between the two brothers.

Read more: Does the Watchtower own any stock in Rand Cam? | Answerbag http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/277981#ixzz0uPTdTxgn

144

The False Prophet Nathan?

by brotherdan in

my mom is addicted to the wts.

i've recently brought up the many false prophecies and she calls almost every week to show me new things that the society has said about false prophets and how they are not one.. the latest was the account where king david wanted to build god a temple.

he told nathan the prophet about his idea and nathan basically said, well god is with you, you should do it.

debator

Hi coffee black

Do you think every single Jew and every single Christian were inspired? and able to do prophecies speak with God directly?

That is the difference. The ones that spoke to God directly indeed is how come we have the Bible itself to read. These were inspired.

The rest of God's people where spirit directed. The Bible itself is the sword of the spirit so using the bible is to be directed by the spirit.

We are Jehovah's people in this time. No other group follows Jehovah.

Zechariah 13:9
This third I will bring into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, 'They are my people,' and they will say, 'Jehovah is our God.' "

144

The False Prophet Nathan?

by brotherdan in

my mom is addicted to the wts.

i've recently brought up the many false prophecies and she calls almost every week to show me new things that the society has said about false prophets and how they are not one.. the latest was the account where king david wanted to build god a temple.

he told nathan the prophet about his idea and nathan basically said, well god is with you, you should do it.

debator

HI brotherdan

Your examples are wrong. you said....

1. They predicted future events that didn't come true (all be it from their twisting of the scriptures) corrected to...has to claim told them directly by God
2. They spoke in God's name words that God did not say....corrected too..has to claim told them directly by God.

otherwise Your original position will make it impossible for us to use the bible prophecies and bible chronology to keep watch without fear of making mistakes and getting condemned for it.

How can we use bible prophecy and chronology making decenment/understanding calls from them as Jesus tells us too if we fear being condemned as false prophets if we do?

Matthew 24:15
—let the reader understand—

Mark 13:14

let the reader understand—

144

The False Prophet Nathan?

by brotherdan in

my mom is addicted to the wts.

i've recently brought up the many false prophecies and she calls almost every week to show me new things that the society has said about false prophets and how they are not one.. the latest was the account where king david wanted to build god a temple.

he told nathan the prophet about his idea and nathan basically said, well god is with you, you should do it.

debator

Hi bennyk

This is already covered calling yourself a prophet isn't the issue. The creteria as set out by all of deut 18 is to claim to speak words directly from God to say you are inspired literally. It is not something people can put on you or can read into badly worded uininspired wt's. The person has to be claiming they can speak/communicate with/talk with/get visions from God himself. Witnesses have never claimed this but trying to build this from wt's trying to read it into them is just being dishonest.

Any witness can tell we know none of us have been inspired because that stopped with the apostles This is an across the board understanding all our people know.

144

The False Prophet Nathan?

by brotherdan in

my mom is addicted to the wts.

i've recently brought up the many false prophecies and she calls almost every week to show me new things that the society has said about false prophets and how they are not one.. the latest was the account where king david wanted to build god a temple.

he told nathan the prophet about his idea and nathan basically said, well god is with you, you should do it.

debator

Hi superpunk and snowbird

Thank you for confirming the point of all prophets not prophesying.

My defence of the witnesses purely from deut 18 (All of it not just a few proof text scriptures) show it is inspired words directly from Jehovah himself is what we are talking about being claimed here. Witnesses have never claimed to be inspired.

Superpunk they have drawn understandings from Bible chronology and signs for us to be ready and "on watch" this is not the same as claiming to be inspired. They are claiming their understandings from God's Bible not directly from God which is the full creteria in deut 18 put down for anyone to read for themselvea.

Deuteronomy 18:18 (New International Version)

18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.

This is the context for all the scriptures that follow. The false prophets claim to speak words directly from God himself.

Using the Bible for understanding is a Command there is no sin in this, even if you get it wrong the bible itself can correct you.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (New International Version)

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

144

The False Prophet Nathan?

by brotherdan in

my mom is addicted to the wts.

i've recently brought up the many false prophecies and she calls almost every week to show me new things that the society has said about false prophets and how they are not one.. the latest was the account where king david wanted to build god a temple.

he told nathan the prophet about his idea and nathan basically said, well god is with you, you should do it.

debator

Hi Jwoods

Yours and Dans opinion that ALL prophets must prophecy is a non-sequitur because the Bible clearly gives us examples of prophets that didn't prophecy. They did other things in support of God but no inspired words where recorded against them. Your logic is to say well just because it isn't there doesn't mean it didn't happen but since there is no evidence to back your sweeping conclusion for this position, it is a weak position to argue from.

144

The False Prophet Nathan?

by brotherdan in

my mom is addicted to the wts.

i've recently brought up the many false prophecies and she calls almost every week to show me new things that the society has said about false prophets and how they are not one.. the latest was the account where king david wanted to build god a temple.

he told nathan the prophet about his idea and nathan basically said, well god is with you, you should do it.

debator

Hi Brotherdan

The shepherds have the automony to make decisions for the whole that is biblical

Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

and those decisions don't have to be inspired they simply have to be Bible directed because the Bible is inspired.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (New International Version)

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

You are confusing having authority with being inspired they are not the sme thing.

The creteria for inspiration had to be put down so people knew which books of the bible where inspired from among other writings etc used in that time.

If someone says "God told me that Armageddon happens on August the 15th at 2pm" that would be claiming inspiration.

If someone told me "Based on the inspired prophecy in the Bible and the chronology from the Bible I see it pointing to august as the time of the end" that would not be claiming to do prophecy.

The difference is simple one person claims to have conversations with God the other does not they use his bible. I find it hard the people on here cannot see the simple truth of this?

Witnesses have never claimed to have direct conversations with God any promises, or prophecies, or Chronology they refer to is from the bible only and can be openly seen to be from the bible. "this generation won't pass away"? Jesus's words from the Bible. God's promise of a peaceful earth? from the bible psalms and isaiah. "Times time and half"? from the bible revelation and daniel. "a year for a day"? from the Bible. Armageddon? from the Bible. And the list goes on.

The Bible give many examples of people called prophets that did not prophecy. There is no mention of them prophecying or saying words from God. No circumstances even pointing to it and in Miriam case she made mistakes and got leprosy. So your opinion is Just that saying "that lack of Biblical backing doesn't matter" your opinion is more important.

If people prefer to believe your opinion that Prophets have to prophecy without Bible backing for your opinion because the Bible clearly shows examples of prophets that have no inspired prophecies to their name which backs my point, that is their choice.

This doesn't take away from the fact that the Bible makes clear statements on what makes someone a false prophet and it isn't calling themself prophets, it is claiming to be able to say the very words directly from Jehovah himself and witnesses have never done this. If you want to make your own "goal posts" or creteria for what constitutes a false prophet and stick it on witnesses then you are only fooling yourself.

154

Last Night's Intervention

by brotherdan in

jw
friends

i'm afraid of starting a new post because i've stepped on a few feet here with my last post... but i still love you guys.. last night i went home to find my wife and her friend on the couch with the bible, ready to show me how i'm wrong and exercising "apostate thinking".

my wife said, "i am unable to fight you with the bible because you know more than me about it.

but k** knows more and will be able to show you how you are wrong.. so my wife went into the other room so as not to be stumbled by my discussion.

debator

I think have said All I need to say on the subject of what constitutes inspiration biblically with regards to deut 18 and speaking words directly from God hense why the bible is called "God's word" as apposed to other non-inspired works that jews used from their leaders etc at that time. I will just reiterate the Bible makes it clear the difference between people having authority from God and inspired prophecy. My opinion is purely bible drawn and people can see this by the scriptures used. Readers should note it is the apposers that have had to goto extra-biblical sources for cut'n'pastes on what to believe regarding false prophecy and they read these into the Bible. Rather than use Bible creteria.