Posts by debator

270

WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

who are the false prophets today.

by barbara anderson.

in 1991, one of the watch tower societys senior writers, colin quackenbush, told me in the privacy of his office about letters which the society had received from prominent and credible elders, not apostates (thats exactly what he said), who were concerned about the increase in accusations saying that jehovahs witnesses were false prophets.

debator

Hi Misery

I'm being completely honest with myself and You. A simple look at the scriptures proves Jehovah's Witnesses are not false prophets. If you want to redefine false prophet by unbiblical standpoint of your own opinion that is your choice.

Hi room

I'm no saying they are not acountable because all shepherds are accountable biblically but Witnesses are simply not false prophets. They have been mistaken on understanding ACTUAL bible prophecies but they are willing to be refined.

The simple problem always remains if we start condemning just for understanding ALREADY WRITTEN bible prophecies or chronology wrong why would anyone even attempt to understand it?

46

Pagan Origins

by brotherdan in

so all of us that grew up as witnesses never did certain things because of them having pagan origins.

why don't we celebrate christmas?

pagan origins.

debator

The bible is silent and condemns by it's silence. Birthdays were known biblically but neither the uncurrupted Jews (Herod took up pagan practises including birthdays) or early Christians celebrated Birthdays. If birthdays were okay why didn't they celebrate them?

The bible doesn't give us a date for Jesus's birth, why?

270

WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

who are the false prophets today.

by barbara anderson.

in 1991, one of the watch tower societys senior writers, colin quackenbush, told me in the privacy of his office about letters which the society had received from prominent and credible elders, not apostates (thats exactly what he said), who were concerned about the increase in accusations saying that jehovahs witnesses were false prophets.

debator

I see you still try and say they are false prophets when they simply do not qualify Biblically to be so. I think threads like this are good for readers to see because they highlight the prejudice on here.

46

My First Post.Thanks To ALL

by southern.finesse in

jw
friends

i would like to start my 1st post by saying thank you.

to the site itself and to all the posters.

my story begins with me meeting the woman of my dreams 4 years ago.

debator

Hi Southern

I'm surprised you use 1x1x1 =1 since this is not a trinity equation. "In reading this equation, we would say "one times one times one equals one". If I said two times four, we would understand that to mean that we have two groups of four, which is equal to eight, objects. Therefore one times one means one group of one which is just one and in no way may be considered to be two. In the same way, one group of one group of one is just one, and in no way may be said to be three."

Hi peacedog

God's "nature" as you are using it, is a just an unbiblical greek philosophy argument from later centuries.

14

What's To Become of Adam and Eve?

by Cold Steel in

i dunno...in the back of my mind, i seem to recall that back when i took some lessons with the witnesses that they told me that adam and eve were going to be in pretty bad shape in the grand scheme of things.

or does jesus' atonement cover adam and eve?

they quoted to me the scripture about john the baptist where jesus says, "he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

debator

Hi Cold steel

Speculation on Adam and Eve beyond what the Bible says is pointless and just leads to false ideas. the bible says no more than they died for their sins. Does Jesus by paying with his life for Adams original sin mean adam himself gets a chance at resurrection? the Bible says nothing on this.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

You then talk about "the least scripture" in relation to Jesus. Your assumption that he is refering to himself just doesn't fit the wording or context.

Earlier in mathew he talks about "the least in kingdom of heaven" is he refering to himself here?

Matthew 5:19
Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

No clearly he is talking of his chosen who follow the bible commands

We then come to the scripture you use.

Matthew 11:11-12 (New International Version)

11 I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it.

Verse 12 again shows he is talking about his chosen because they are the forceful men laying hold of it. Here we have a contradiction can jesus be "least" and "king""Lord" I cannot see any biblical context for assuming Jesus is refering to himself here it seems to be drawn purely from your need to make everyone be in heaven and apparently all worth more than Jesus who is least!

Why where Adam and Eve made physical beings on earth and God call this all good since you see it as a thing of disgust that the earth could be a bible promise by God? Why not just let them be in heaven straight away?

From your proof-texting and lack of context, reading doctrine into the scriptures without proof beyond opinion. I suggest it is you that has the faulty exegesis Cold steel.

38

"Come Be My Follower" - Christendom is bad for sponsoring charities and feeding the poor - what?

by Bonnie_Clyde in

jw
friends

i just got the "come be my follower" book and am shocked at their illustration on page 186. maybe i'm more shocked that at one time i would have accepted this warped reasoning.. first they quote jesus at matt.

7:21-23: "'lord, lord, did we not...perform many powerful works in your name?

' and yet then i will confess to them: i never knew you!

debator

They are pointing out the obviousness of Christendom dropping of our main tasks as christians which is to take care of the flock, to preach, to teach, feed, rebuke, to take care of God's People. Making the whole message about random acts of charity to anyone however worthy is simply not doing all that is assigned for us as Christians to do.

StAnn saying a few scriptures in the churches themselves requiring people to come to the church to hear is not preaching work. Jesus showed us physically how to do the preaching work and it means going personally to the people not expecting them to come to you. Paul travelled thousands of miles under inspiration of this command.

Terry are you making a case that charity giving is enough, by bible and God's requirements?

How important do you rate going from door to door and preaching God's message of salvation to people?

29

Are Earthquakes Really On The Increase?

by cognizant dissident in

i had coffee with my jw mother today.

it was the weekend of her circuit overseers visit.

"a very nice man" according to her.

debator

http://www.earth.webecs.co.uk/

" By limiting the range of earthquakes being counted in this report to magnitude 7 or above, it means these earthquakes can easily be identified by a limited number of seismographs, and we have ensured that any increase in frequency for these larger earthquakes cannot be down to the increase in overall detection rates in this 25-year period, as all these larger earthquakes are able to be easily detected with fewer seismograph stations. "

I notice there is a 'disconnect' between what the USGS says in the above link you show, and what it shows in its earthquake listings.

34

The Faithful and Discreet WHAT?

by Cold Steel in

i'm sure this has been covered before, so please excuse me if it has.

my questions are:.

how do people know that they're part of the faithful and discreet slave class?how is seniority established?.

debator

Hi cantleave

You have to be inspired of God to do prophecies! we have never claimed inspiration. We take our understandings from already written Bible prophecies and chronology. I have discussed this indepth already on this site and find it hard to understand that you would still believe what is obviously a made-up wrongdoing to put at witnesses door?

Exwhyzee

I tested all the religions by the bible itself and Jehovah's witnesses stood out uniquely.

Why would you assume I have no experience of other churches? I have had quite a bit of contact with other churches in my life and find them too immersed in trinitarian exegesis or Christ worship ever be considered options. Jehovah's Witnesses fulfill biblical requirement of what the flock (and those who are shepherds from among the flock until Jesus's return) are doing in this time biblically as our God and father Jehovah's People. They let the bible explain itself and follow it's instructions as Jehovah's word. Witness shepherds show a dedication to the bible directives to instruct, teach, rebuke the flock that I have seen nowhere else. In christendom's religions, I see either a lack of shepherds not noticiable because they leave the flock directionless or too noticiable in their enjoyment of lifes luxuries at the flocks expense. Jesus gave specific instruction to our shepherds and I only see the witnesses doing this.

Matthew 18:16-21 (New International Version)

16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' [a] 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

18 "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be [b] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be [c] loosed in heaven.

19 "Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

We use verse 19 a lot but it's context is instruction on how to keep the flock clean and the authority given by Jesus for our shepherds to do this. He clearly gives a certain automony of handling these situations saying his father God will stick by it.

46

My First Post.Thanks To ALL

by southern.finesse in

jw
friends

i would like to start my 1st post by saying thank you.

to the site itself and to all the posters.

my story begins with me meeting the woman of my dreams 4 years ago.

debator

Hi southern

I thought I would Just clarify. As witnesses we believe Jesus is literally God's firstborn son. Michael, Logos, Lamb, Immanuel, Messiah, Christ are just alternate names and titles of which he has many.

We do not believe Jesus is "God the son" an expression that never appears in the bible but we know him to be God's Son it is as simple as that. Our one true God Jehovah is his father. You seem more comfortable using modern hebrew best guess "Yahweh" for "Jehovah" the English version of YHWH. But you are happy to use "Jesus" the English version of Jesus instead of hebrew "Yeshua" or greek "iesous"?

I would happily use any bible version while they mostly reflect trinitarian bible exegesis, You can show the truth from them. The problem is trinitarians are taught to believe oxymorons are normal so they can believe something is the opposite to what the bible says. Like believing a son can be his father. Or that 3 can be 1 or that dead doesn't mean dead etc.

1 Corinthians 15:27
For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

This scripture reads more strongly in your bible translations than it does in NWT bible translation.

Be aware the arguments from this site are mostly pointing at the imperfection of men, an easy target since we are indeed imperfect. I do not know which denomination you are but the shots from this site are pretty spread out and designed subtly not just to disconstruct witnesses faith but the bible itself and any religious faith in there broad coverage of topics.

I posted only to clarify.

34

The Faithful and Discreet WHAT?

by Cold Steel in

i'm sure this has been covered before, so please excuse me if it has.

my questions are:.

how do people know that they're part of the faithful and discreet slave class?how is seniority established?.

debator

Hi cantleave

Respectfully I don't agree with any of your points.