Posts by debator

131

Can we trust this website? (About the subject in which Jehovah's Witnesses were a NGO)

by possible-san in

can we trust this website?.

watchtower as a united nations ngo - critical look at the conspiracy theory.

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/.

debator

Simple counter argument...

Acts 22:27
The commander went to Paul and asked, "Tell me, are you a Romancitizen?" "Yes, I am," he answered.

Paul was a Roman citizen the Un/disgusting thing of his day.

There is no wrongdoing in dealing with the Un as a functioning part of the authority set up around us from the nations. As Paul clearly did himself using is Membership as a Roman citizen to do the same. Being a part of the UN department of Information for a 10 year period alone. Simply to get access to the extensive Un libraries of information was a practical solution which ended when Un policy made even joining this information department more of a commitment than it should of been. So they ended it.

Making a whole conspiracy theory about membership of a department of information for 10 years is one of the funniest ones I hear from Ex-Jws since it shows their predjudice more than many other topics.

12

"Concerning that day and hour nobody knows......"

by drewcoul in

in the nwt we read at matt 24:36: "concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the son, but only the father.".

if witnesses are correct that the day could be calculated by ezekiel's prophecy, based on the destruction of jerusalem and the rebuilding of the temple, then they are, in effect saying that, although jesus was aware of the historical account of the destruction of jerusalem, and was alive with the father in heaven when the prophecy was made, and was alive with the father in heaven when jerusalem was destroyed......get this.......he didn't know there was going to be an antetypical (or antitypical i can't remember how to spell it or what it really means) fulfillment 2000 years in the future!!!!

but....then here comes jf rutherford to the rescue.

debator

yes Earth/world = footstool

Matthew 5:35
or by the earth, for it is his footstool;

And then in hebrews Jesus awaits his enemies becoming his footstool. How can this be?

Revelation 12:9
The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
Revelation 12:10 (New International Version)

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
"Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.

Revelation 12:12 (New International Version)

12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens
and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
because he knows that his time is short."

Satan is ruler of the world the footstool. It is in that moment that the above scripture declares the salvation now Satan has come down to earth/footstool.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

42

An Overlooked Detail of Armageddon

by cameo-d in

why has it been passed down to us that the word 'armageddon' refers to meggido?

who came up with that and stamped and approved it as a translation?

i am not sure if jws buy into that same interpretation...so maybe you all can fill me in.. .

debator

Are we ignoring the fact that Revelation is richly symbolic vision given to Paul in which he writes down what he sees?

Apparently all the kings of the whole world can gather at this place. Is this even possible if you make it the literal megiddo? we see frogs and the like coming out of the beast mouth etc.

and then in the ending of this very symbolic passage the consequences clearly happen over the whole earth.

Rvelation 16:19The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. 20 Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found. 21 From the sky huge hailstones of about a hundred pounds each fell upon men. And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible.

The context of the whole symbolic chapter takes it beyond one small place. And it is not unusual for a place name to be used for an event/people/nation in the same chapter Babylon is used to represent something different than the original actual city/nation.

12

"Concerning that day and hour nobody knows......"

by drewcoul in

in the nwt we read at matt 24:36: "concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the son, but only the father.".

if witnesses are correct that the day could be calculated by ezekiel's prophecy, based on the destruction of jerusalem and the rebuilding of the temple, then they are, in effect saying that, although jesus was aware of the historical account of the destruction of jerusalem, and was alive with the father in heaven when the prophecy was made, and was alive with the father in heaven when jerusalem was destroyed......get this.......he didn't know there was going to be an antetypical (or antitypical i can't remember how to spell it or what it really means) fulfillment 2000 years in the future!!!!

but....then here comes jf rutherford to the rescue.

debator

Is the op saying Jesus wasn't refering to Armageddon in his prophecy? because Jesus's enthronement (gaining kingly power) and Armageddon are two different events clearly not meant to be confused with each other. One definitely happens before the other?

NWT hebrew 10: 12 But this [man] offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually and sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from then on awaiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet.

29

Bill O'Reilly vs. Bill Maher On Religion

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

.

bill o'reilly vs. bill maher on religion - 09/30/10 .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zref_lpir_k.

debator

I agree niether seem very knowledgeable on the topic they are discussing or each others.

It is a good for people to see that atheists are blinkered and determined of their own superiority.

This shows that atheists can fall into the same traps as any group showing myopic opinion of their particular belief system. They are looking at how a car engine works but postulating what made the engine from that knowledge. It will be interesting to see if Darwinism one day disproves itself by it's own need to delve into the increasing complexities of life, however microscopic you get, where not even enough time (billions of years) can make something out of nothing.

In the end the engine can only have been made one way and only one answer will be true.

169

Rich Man and Lazarus

by Ding in

i have never understood the watchtower's explanation of the rich man and lazarus story jesus told in luke 16. of course, they don't believe jesus is talking about what happens in an "afterlife" after people die.. but from the watchtower's point of view:.

1. who are the five brothers?.

2. why can't lazarus go witness to them?

debator

While Jesus's parables often refered to real things/events/people in richly metaphorical terms (as in this case, the hypocritical leaders). They are definitely not meant to be taken as literal events in themselves. To do so is to go beyond any parable Jesus used.

What was Jesus's view of the dead?

Mark 5:39
He went in and said to them, "Why all this commotion and wailing? The child is not dead but asleep."

John 11:11
After he had said this, he went on to tell them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up."

1 Corinthians 15:20
But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

In context of what Jesus and the apostles state as to the condition of the dead, to then use this parable to postulate wildly against Jesus's own words on the actual condition of the dead is foolish at best.

153

Oz Govt following UK & French lead on Tax/Charity status

by Mattieu in

just another update on 1 australian senators quest to squash the tax free status of scientology/jw's and other cults:.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/call-for-independent-charities-commission-20100912-1570g.html.

now the election is over, hopefully wont take too long for legislation to pass.

debator

Hi MMXIV

The point is that ministers pay personal tax for those things, as do elders who pay tax from secular jobs. In churches where they get paid wages presumably they too pay tax from their wages. As does the congregation of a church (as per their personal circumstances relating to the law of the land).

Religion is a spiritual choice from people that already pay taxes (personal circumstances allowing) So taxing their religious choice is making them pay a further tax on top of this.

How much would a kingdom hall use tax payers money? Hardly any at all. Since it's upkeep is all paid by donations.

Hi black sheep

are you willing to put up similar documents from other religions?

Bohm

despite you not respecting my name, I did answer that question but made it clear that you are deliberately keeping it vague and filling in the "abuse" (apparently involved) from your own prejudiced opinion.

Hi doubting bro

Your comparing apples and oranges. Religions are a public right and we should not have to pay for the privillege on top of the fact that we already pay taxes and recognition of that right is why they are tax exempt.

Many religous heads are actually heads of their country like in England. The Queen is the head of the church of England and a lot of her accumulated wealth has been got from donations to the church of England and I'm sure she pays a healthy tax bill.

To explain the Public right of religion to people that are mostly atheist and think of churches as just money making schemes without recognising how much those of us that do have a deep spiritual need and do need to express this, is almost impossible.

153

Oz Govt following UK & French lead on Tax/Charity status

by Mattieu in

just another update on 1 australian senators quest to squash the tax free status of scientology/jw's and other cults:.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/call-for-independent-charities-commission-20100912-1570g.html.

now the election is over, hopefully wont take too long for legislation to pass.

debator

Without exception all religions main goal (on paper at least) is a religious one. If they do charity outside of this it is extra as it is with witnesses, we are not unusual in this respect. And as an established people's right, religion is a recognised one. All people should have access to religion of their own choice!

I cannot see how you can simply say that any division of religion beyond this is driven by anything beyond personal opinion. likes and dislikes.

The only exception being if they break common laws.

The argument that religions are freeloaders is just the position from those that do not value religion and are religiously intolerant.

The only arguments I see are "all religions should pay tax" from those that are not religious and don't recognise it's value and "Witnesses should pay tax because I don't like them" from people with a grudge against witnesses. These are both arguments from a position of prejudice and not objective at all.

153

Oz Govt following UK & French lead on Tax/Charity status

by Mattieu in

just another update on 1 australian senators quest to squash the tax free status of scientology/jw's and other cults:.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/call-for-independent-charities-commission-20100912-1570g.html.

now the election is over, hopefully wont take too long for legislation to pass.

debator

Hi Isaac and bohm

All I get from you two is.

"We don't like witnesses therefore france should tax them!"

Where is the objectivity in that?

153

Oz Govt following UK & French lead on Tax/Charity status

by Mattieu in

just another update on 1 australian senators quest to squash the tax free status of scientology/jw's and other cults:.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/call-for-independent-charities-commission-20100912-1570g.html.

now the election is over, hopefully wont take too long for legislation to pass.

debator

Hi Besty

It does for those that believe in them. It is a basic unalienable right of humans beings to learn about the religious options available to them. You can feed a poor person but should he get a chance to read and learn about the bible too?

Religions first and foremost are supposed to provide for religous needs of their members and that is their purpose. Your right as People get less religious the governments will use this as an excuse to turn on religon.

Not recognising religion are of expertise is just religious intolerance from a growing irreligious people.

Your own list refering purely to wrongdoings you put at the witnesses doors is an example of your biased position. Which means you are in no position to look at Witnesses with any kind of objectivity. Your dislike puts them at the top of your hate list every time.