Posts by debator

184

At what point did you realize JW's were a Cult?

by Think About It in

most of us x-jw's at one point no doubt defended the jw's when called a cult.

althought being out since 95', when i first came here it took awhile before i could use the cult word to describe the jw religion.

finding out about the pedophile scandal was disgusting, but it was probably finding out here about the wts history and terrible personal experiences of some on this board that made me finally admit that the jw's were a cult.

debator

Hi misery

Thank you for your detailed replies.

As you can see from above, most people on here equate an authority structure with high control which I simply don't. Jesus makes it clear we will have kings and priests over us after Armageddon and shepherds now and for me that simply means we have to get used to allowing for that structure which starts with Jehovah and then through his son Jesus and then through those Jesus gives authority too.

Titus 2:15
These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

I agree with the witnesses that under Bible principle that higher education shouldn't be emphasised. The Bible is very clear that book learning of worldly knowledge serves no purpose in God's kingdom so they are right to warn us but leave it to personal conscience. That Jesus was a carpenter and the apostles he chose doing equally menial jobs of their day shows this principle, in action.

James 2:5
Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him?

God's moral code clearly encompasses more than just sexual immorality.

I absolutely do not think have strict moral laws causes people to sin! it's like saying that by making the tree forbidden in the Garden of Eden Jehovah made Eve sin.

We make a personal choice to go against the Bible's moral laws on sexual immorality, lying, stealing, idolatry, hurting others etc. It is the simple concept of freewill that we choose to do what is bad despite knowing it is wrong. If you don't know something is wrong you will do it out of ignorance which is what does lay blame on the person who doesn't teach them it is wrong.

Romans 3:20
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

44

"The Watch Tower is a Wicked Organization ...

by snowbird in

... and has placed its members under a curse from god.

" galatians 1:8. the author of this site makes that claim repeatedly.

http://www.truthandgrace.com/watchtower.htm.

debator

Hi Brotherdan

1/ 1914 is derived from Bible chronology and prophecy we are allowed to use both of these and indeed are supposed to.

2/ The bible itself calls him the Angel of the covenant.

Malachi 3:1 Amplified bible
BEHOLD, I send My messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me. And the Lord [the Messiah], Whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; the Messenger or Angel of the covenant, Whom you desire, behold, He shall come, says the Lord of hosts.

3/ what are Christians? and was Jesus a man?

Acts 26:28-29 (New International Version)

28 Then Agrippa said to Paul, "Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?"

29 Paul replied, "Short time or long—I pray God that not only you but all who are listening to me today may become what I am, except for these chains."

4/ They haven't made a single false prophecy as they have never claimed inspiration ever.

5/ We do not speak ancient Hebrew the bible inspired in three different languages allows for transliterated names from one language to another. Jehovah uses all of YHWH the complete name of God in written hebrew. Think about the English form of Jesus you use that bears little resemblance to the original Yeshua or yehoshuah or Iesous that are his name in different languages. You condemn from the an unbiblical preposition that God wants us all to speak Ancient hebrew or that his name only counts in that language alone (a rule you only use on Jehovah's name and apply to no other name least of all Jesus's)

6/ 144,000 is a Bible teaching and so is Jesus choosing his firstfruits to be kings and priests with him in heaven. He mediates a covenant with them that effects all mankind. But if you think Everyone will be kings and Priests in heaven over a few sheep and goats on earth that is your choice.

7/ Acts 1:8 is not about using a name but about what we preach and we do preach and witness about Jesus we just don't lop off his father and stick Jesus on his throne. Jesus said it himself.

John 17:1-3

1 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father,.... 3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Jehovah our Father and Jesus are not a multiple choice. We have to witness about both as Jesus himself witnesses about his father too.

Revelation 1:5
Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness

8/ The bible never calls the holy spirit a person it is always refered in neuter terms and as God's power (literally the "breath of God") john 1:1 is notable like many other proof texts for trinity in it's lack of mention of holy spirit. When jesus and his father are picture in heaven they are both together but the spirit is never pictured as a person.

9/ total lie! we have never taught that salvation is through works. We have always taught that our Faith motivates true Christians to do works.

10/ like I saids earlier It willl be a rather full heaven that makes a lie out of the promises in isaiah and Jesus's own words if everyone goes to heaven.

Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

Brotherdan You need to research your Bible more!

44

"The Watch Tower is a Wicked Organization ...

by snowbird in

... and has placed its members under a curse from god.

" galatians 1:8. the author of this site makes that claim repeatedly.

http://www.truthandgrace.com/watchtower.htm.

debator

Acts 5:38-39 (New International Version)

38 Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God."

Have a bit of commonsense then.

And leave us alone to sink or swim by our own convictions over what are pure Bible truths.

44

"The Watch Tower is a Wicked Organization ...

by snowbird in

... and has placed its members under a curse from god.

" galatians 1:8. the author of this site makes that claim repeatedly.

http://www.truthandgrace.com/watchtower.htm.

debator

No we Jehovah's Witnesses aren't!

Galatians 1:8 (New International Version)

8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

What gospel was preached then?

An honest answer to that is why if you applying that scripture in accusation against anyone you need to be very sure about what you yourselves are preaching.

Matthew 7:2
For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

27

Take the dubbie Bible Knowledge Challenge!

by Farkel in

i believe it was jim penton who mentioned that even the more knowledgeable dubbies only know about 25 or so bible verses well enough to cite book, chapter, verse and can cite those verses verbatim.

some years ago, i started a thread on that very subject and only came up with about 25 verses i myself remembered when i was a dubbie.

i was considered quite the bible "scholar" back in the day, too!

debator

Hi Snowbird

Our publications are tools that direct us to the bible teachings. Any principle or rule we apply to a modern setting is a bible one.

Is it okay to smoke when the bible principle of treating our body like a temple is applied?

27

Take the dubbie Bible Knowledge Challenge!

by Farkel in

i believe it was jim penton who mentioned that even the more knowledgeable dubbies only know about 25 or so bible verses well enough to cite book, chapter, verse and can cite those verses verbatim.

some years ago, i started a thread on that very subject and only came up with about 25 verses i myself remembered when i was a dubbie.

i was considered quite the bible "scholar" back in the day, too!

debator

I think you'll find witnesses have a vast bible knowledge compared to the general populous or anyone for that matter. It is a well-oiled lamp in our hands.

One opening point I use on the ministry is "Do you have a bible. have you ever read it?" and nearly everytime they say "yes they have a bible and no they haven't ever read it".

And also compared to most religions that put their doctrines ahead of the bible. So to be a trinitarian you need a degree in trinity but not the bible to be a trinitarian. Using john 1:1 from their translations usually does the trick for them.

Your average person these days wouldn't even know how to look a scripture up.

Actually if I said to some what religion are you and they say "I am church of England" and I ask them if they read the bible they usually say no. To them religion is just something they write on the odd form.

One of the main reasons I am a Jehovah's witness is that I like reading the whole bible without flinching at the contradictions. To be in a Christian Religion where Jehovah is my one God and father throughout the bible is marvelous.

278

Children of 1975

by d in

what was it like to live in the 1950's 1960's and early 70's as a jehovah witness.when they started to push the 1975 date..

debator

We preached then! we preach now! we preached for the last 2000 years that God's day will come!

But if you are saying they preached Armageddon will happen in '75 then that is just hearsay! That being said I'm sure some did in their enthusiasm but as the quoted watchtowers show they had no publications to back it up as a definite Armageddon date they would have had to say "hopefully, maybe, probably"

or more likely say "Armageddon is due very soon because we are in the last days!" which is what I preach now and what russell preached over a 100 years ago too.

We are commanded to preach and so there is no "allowance" from shepherds involved.

27

Take the dubbie Bible Knowledge Challenge!

by Farkel in

i believe it was jim penton who mentioned that even the more knowledgeable dubbies only know about 25 or so bible verses well enough to cite book, chapter, verse and can cite those verses verbatim.

some years ago, i started a thread on that very subject and only came up with about 25 verses i myself remembered when i was a dubbie.

i was considered quite the bible "scholar" back in the day, too!

debator

Hi meeting

Sorry it is simply too loaded and incorrect to boot.

184

At what point did you realize JW's were a Cult?

by Think About It in

most of us x-jw's at one point no doubt defended the jw's when called a cult.

althought being out since 95', when i first came here it took awhile before i could use the cult word to describe the jw religion.

finding out about the pedophile scandal was disgusting, but it was probably finding out here about the wts history and terrible personal experiences of some on this board that made me finally admit that the jw's were a cult.

debator

Hi bohm

Whether they are cults or not is not the point! The point on the table is if Witnesses are a cult.

You are simply introducing them as non sequitors.

Bohm is non sequitor fallacy a constant tactic you use in debates?

184

At what point did you realize JW's were a Cult?

by Think About It in

most of us x-jw's at one point no doubt defended the jw's when called a cult.

althought being out since 95', when i first came here it took awhile before i could use the cult word to describe the jw religion.

finding out about the pedophile scandal was disgusting, but it was probably finding out here about the wts history and terrible personal experiences of some on this board that made me finally admit that the jw's were a cult.

debator

Hi Poopsie

How can you have unity without believing the same things?

You propose an Oxymoron in your words.

An oxymoron (plural oxymorons or oxymora) (from Greek ?ξ?μωρον, "sharp dull") is a figure of speech that combines normally-contradictory terms. Oxymorons appear in a variety of contexts, including inadvertent errors such as extremely average and literary oxymorons crafted to reveal a paradox.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxymoron

Yes Isaac Paul makes it very clear in his writing.

Romans 16:17
I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

2 Thessalonians 3:6
In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us.