The WTS is slowly and grudgingly admitting that mental illness actually exists and has hinted that "some" who commit suicide "may" be resurrected.
As long as it is practiced in moderation......
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YES Moderation is the key, indeed in wt
Posts by JT
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10What is the WT teachings on suicide?
by kls inas a cult member i once asked a elder ,what are the witnesses teachings of suicide and his answer was that no person's that have taken their own lives will be resurrected wether they were jws or not.
is this still the same or have you heard something different.
if you have any spiritual beliefs , what are your thoughts on suicide .
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JT
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79
Do You Actually Believe In The "Power of Prayer"???
by minimus in...or that unified meditation can change the course of things??
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JT
The question was ask
?JT: Since when was prayer the reserved domain of Christians??
I never said that it was. I looked back thru my post and was unable to located where I made that statement----
but since this site is mainly directed toward the belief system of Christians that is why I was discussing Christians--------- for I highlighted that fact by stating:
?in view of the FACT the believer esp believers of christaintity ?
For me it matters not what ones religious belief system is--- they generally share many common features and ?Prayer? usually is one of them,
so I was addressing my comment mainly toward the belief system of Christians but if you like we could talk about others - // hindu, muslium etc, fine ---but I was more focused on Christians-
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you stated:
?Further, what makes you think that Christians try to convert??
It is very surprising that you would ask such a question being a former jw???
For the ?Converting? of folks to Christianity goes back to the very day Christianity was formed, the spreading of the word is an integral part of Christianity, I assumed and I see incorrectly that you were aware of that,
now whether each and every SINGLE denomination WITHIN Christianity makes ?converting? a major feature of their particular brand of Christianity will indeed differ, but to ask were I got the idea that Christians try to convert folks is pretty simple, ever heard of matt 24 :14
you further state:
?non-believers do not have a core dogma or purpose or mandate "FROM GOD" to convert others to their views--they merely state what thier personal views are on a matter,
Certainly feels like folks are attempting to convert us, at times.?
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That may be true ? FOR folks are always trying to ?Convert? folks to their views on issues, the difference is and I highlighted that point is:
?non-believers do not have a core dogma or purpose or mandate "FROM GOD" to convert others to their views?While I may feel that my view is one that others should share---- I or anyone else I know-- feel that such is a mandate from God
You ask the question:
?Do you really stand on your statement??
Yes I do,- unless you can show me were a nonbeliever as an individual or collectively as some group has felt that his/thier views are a mandate by god-
I have never seen that, but I have seen plenty believers who do.
Just my 2
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79
Would the world be a better place without religion?
by micheal ini understand we all need guidance and some people need hope, even if it is not real.
but personally, i believe religion has caused so many hideous crimes against humanity that it is something we would all be better off without.. it really is too bad that religion has capitalized on humankind's need for a divine being to only abuse and control its fellow humans.. so, what do you think?
would we be better of without religion?.
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JT
truthseek1
i will be the first to say that religion has done some excellent things in the lives of others, but by the same token i feel that you should commend one where one can and hold thier feet to the fire when need
religion is like a DR Hickle and Mr Hyde-
to see a group of believers rally around a person in their dire time of need in the name of god/lord is wonderful, yet this same group can 10 days later rally around someone and burn them alive all in the name of the lord or god
just because they dont share the same views as they do
this is a hard cold fact that believers in belief systems often time refuse to address
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79
Would the world be a better place without religion?
by micheal ini understand we all need guidance and some people need hope, even if it is not real.
but personally, i believe religion has caused so many hideous crimes against humanity that it is something we would all be better off without.. it really is too bad that religion has capitalized on humankind's need for a divine being to only abuse and control its fellow humans.. so, what do you think?
would we be better of without religion?.
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JT
Religion could be all right if it didn't separate people, making them think they are chosen, or better than others who don't believe the same way they do
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this has got the be the best IN THE NUTSHELL comment one can give, excellent point , hitting the nail on the head
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79
Do You Actually Believe In The "Power of Prayer"???
by minimus in...or that unified meditation can change the course of things??
?
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JT
WHY CAN'T WE JUST LEAVE THEM ALONE? IT FEELS LIKE ANOTHER BELIEF OR DISBELIEF IS BEING PUSHED ON THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE, "THEY MUST BE SHOWN THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS".
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THIS is an interesting comment---- in view of the FACT the believer esp believers of christaintity are under orders from god to "push" the message to others, so one of the core requirements as a christian is to CONVERT FOLKS, yes to show others the errors of thier ways as the poster so niclely cited.
non-beleivers do not have a core dogma or purpose or mandate "FROM GOD" to convert others to their views--they merely state what thier personal views are on a matter,
but the believer INVOKES that his views are those of god and if you reject his views you are rejecting god and worthy of death-
believers have a long historical record that if one doesn't let them show them the errors of their ways they have be known to take a few lives to make point "now why could they just leave folks aone"
the question that the thread ask was ---do you really believe in the power of prayer,---
and many have merely commented at how they see many of the contridictions in a process that is suppose to help folks when they need it the most ---------has repeately failed to help folks at such times
if you had a car that started sometime and other times it didn't , would you be wrong to merely point out that sometime you can rely on Ole Besty and other times she might put in down when you need it the most.----------- like driving out in the middle of nowhere and the engine cuts off
well for the women being raped , the children being abused and folks suffering at the hands of another , for them prayer didn't help them-
they prayed and they still got killed, not to much power in that prayer regardless of how one wants to dress it up-
if one wants to believe xyz , fine with me and most folks,
but when others want to believe xyz many believer views them as heading to death at the hands of god himself, i can't think of one NONBELIEVER who has viewed a believer who at the end of the day is heading to death in a fiery hell, but i certainly have talked to a ton of believer who view others who don't share thier views as such
after being in wt for 30yrs that mindset no longer appeals to most of us, THE OLE _ "Join us and live, if not YOU DIE"
IT get tired and worn out after awhile
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79
Do You Actually Believe In The "Power of Prayer"???
by minimus in...or that unified meditation can change the course of things??
?
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JT
WHY CAN'T WE JUST LEAVE THEM ALONE? IT FEELS LIKE ANOTHER BELIEF OR DISBELIEF IS BEING PUSHED ON THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE, "THEY MUST BE SHOWN THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS".
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79
Do You Actually Believe In The "Power of Prayer"???
by minimus in...or that unified meditation can change the course of things??
?
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JT
WHY CAN'T WE JUST LEAVE THEM ALONE? IT FEELS LIKE ANOTHER BELIEF OR DISBELIEF IS BEING PUSHED ON THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE, "THEY MUST BE SHOWN THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS".
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79
Do You Actually Believe In The "Power of Prayer"???
by minimus in...or that unified meditation can change the course of things??
?
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JT
That statement was just like this:
Someone believes in lucky rabbit feet,then rubs the foot for good luck that his plane doesn't crash during the landing. Then asks me if I believe in the rabbit foot and I respond with a No, I don't think it has any outcome. Then gets mad at me thinking I want the plane to crash.
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excellent point, i was thinking the same thing, what does believing in prayer or not have to do with Wanting someone to get better
yet we have seen over and over how some believers share this one size fit all-
we all saw the basic mindset in wt, to question wt - questioning god, and now we see that same basic mindset-
"I pray for Leroy to get better, that means i want to see him get well, since you DON'T PRAY THAT MEANS YOU WANT TO SEE HIM STAY SICK"
it is this type of reasoning that has made me reexamine so many commonly held views connected with religious belief system
how sad
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79
Do You Actually Believe In The "Power of Prayer"???
by minimus in...or that unified meditation can change the course of things??
?
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JT
this is one of the most difficult things for a believer to Logically explain, usually the reponse is YOU JUST GOTTA BELIEVE
well that sounds good on paper but the fact of the matter is billions of folks around the world who truly could use the power of prayer dont get it
we pray to have healthy baby- if we do, then the believer firmly believes that his prayer was answered, while millions are born deformed or with other conditions
we pray that the surgery on grandma is successful, grandma comes thru with flying colors, the believer says god was watchig out for her-
matters not that she was in the best medical hosptial in the country
yet millions of folks can't get basic medicine like clean water and salt to prevent Diarrhea in their babies-
we walk to our car at night and are approached by some thug asking for our keys, we pray out loud O-LORD, The person leaves, the beleiver firmly believs that his prayer protected him,
yet we saw with our own eyes via the net person scream out to thier god and yet thier heads were cut off like a chickens neck
at this point the beleiver attempts to explain why some folks get their power of prayer answered and others do not- and it is an interesting conversation as one listens to a believer explain why someone like a child was raped while the little 7yr old screamed out in prayer to the god that the little child was told would protect them- so even at a young age this process of god will hook you up and if he don't it was not the right time, is ingrained into the little heads of children
so when they become adults they too can explain why some folks get the hook up and others who could really use a hook up don't
yes the power of prayer is an amazing concept, for as long as man needs Hope, and has a desire for something better, the power of prayer and the belief systems that support it will always be here
just my 2
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Does the WTS print their URL on their literature?
by JH in.
we all know that the wts has a web site at http://www.watchtower.org but i was wondering if we find this on the awake and watchtower magazines, or on any other litereature that they produce?
i ask this because we all know that they don't want to encourage too many witnesses to go surfing on the net looking at religious information out there, but they do want to have a web site to attract worldly people.
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JT
for along time the wt only had it mentioned in like 3 places and they all were in Internal material such as the KM
if you go back thru the archives here you will find we discussed that issue at length- and then finally they started to mention it
it was discussed in a thread that deals with the fact that the latest wt and awake CAN NOT BE OBTAINED ON THE NET-
so here we have the most important message to all of mankind, and we have the most powerful tool known to man today the NET and the wt neither provides their latest mag ( heck cnn updates thier site every 10min) and the wt comes out every 2 weeks-
they have no ablity to access their vast library of food from jw, no research can be done on wt website- yet the wt currently has digitized practiclly all of the publications they have ever printed, yet they are not avaiblble to the avg man on the street,
i guess they want to hand deliver them to everyone- smile