1930 corr
the 1930's 1931 to be exact
Posts by JT
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102When Jehovah's Witnesses do bad - Are criticisms of JW's valid? Part I
by rambaldi inwhen we see news reports of jehovahs witnesses who are reported to have done something bad, what do we think?
sometimes people ridicule us for that.
obey and become his special property, disobey and be rejected.
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102
When Jehovah's Witnesses do bad - Are criticisms of JW's valid? Part I
by rambaldi inwhen we see news reports of jehovahs witnesses who are reported to have done something bad, what do we think?
sometimes people ridicule us for that.
obey and become his special property, disobey and be rejected.
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JT
The first people who were Jehovah’s witnesses were Adam and Eve
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how is that possible, jw are a denomination, and according to even the wt it was not until 1930 did jw change their name from bible students to jw, I have never seen anyone in the bible who is called a Jehovah's Witness-
for your information the wt society is very careful how they refer to Jehovah's Witnesses and Jehovah's witness
if you do some research you will see that the wt when refering to anyone before 1931 they use the "small" 'w'-
when they refer to anyone after 1931 they use the capitol "W": the reason why is the wt knows that they can't not honestly call Moses a Jehovah's "W"itness with a capitol letter
it was not until a former jw who is lawyer [pointed that out to me
ck it out for yourself, and you will see how they toggle back and forth between capitol w and a small w
wt is some slick dudes i have to give it to them
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Is College now wrong for Jehovah's Witnesses again?
by booker-t ini have been out of the jw's for many years now but i still have devout jw's family members.
and i am attending college now at 40 yrs old working on my ba degree.
i was so happy a few years ago when my jw mom told me that the wt is slacking off on telling jw's teenagers that college is bad and it is ok to attend college and universities.
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JT
Although I didn't give it much thought at the time, I realised he had a good point. There was at least one family, the McCabes, (sp?) where the father was a lawer and he had a wife and 2-3 kids. They were at the Bossert hotel in a very nice room.
$$$$
do you recall the black doctor who had his whole family there, like 3 girls- they lived in a brown stone we fixed up for them, it is worth over 1million dollars
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How Does the Governing Body Extend its Control Over the Many Organizations?
by frankiespeakin inhow does the governing body extend its control over the many organizations that they made back in the year 2000 ?.
i think they have some type of by-laws in these corparations where they are to be in subjection to the wishes of the gb.. also thier may be some stipulations that the controlling members of each seperate corperation must be in good standing and can not function in any capacity if they are disfellowshipped.
thus the gb can alway use thier unlimited power to df to bring members in line or remove them if the gb feel threated.. i would think that the by-laws of these seperate entities are somewhat similar to the by-laws that form the congregation corperations in order for the congregation to be a legal corperation that can own property, where the by-laws state that they must remain in subjection to the gb.
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JT
think we all have something to contribute to the common cause that brought us to this forum. We all have different perspectives, that may clash at times, we all feel strongly about certain things, I think our hashing them out, even if heated or animated does some theraputic good, and often may brings to light some very novel ideas or seeds of novel idea that can prove to be very deadly to the structure of control imposed by the WT org.
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abosolutely no question about, it, i have found that in some countries the wt rope of control varies from tight enough to cut off your air, to loose enough to allow you to breath
jw who come from congo with educated elders find that going to college was more tempered, in fact many often make the comment that after meeting parts elders have been know to express views privately that are different from the org,
while at the same time if one comes from a congo where the avg age of the elders is less than high school, the veiws on college are even stronger than wt, so as i tell folks not only does the avg jw have the views of the wt imposed on them, but all too often they then have the views of the local elders impose on them as if those views are the will of god
case in point, on DO would not allow any bro on the circiut assembly without a White shirt-
so at the assembly hall they kept a collection of white shirts
after awhile this foolishness worked its way to the some halls, after folks started to complain to bethel they pulled his chain
it is such foolishness that impacts the lives of jw daily, between wt goofy rules and some local elder/co rules, the life of a jw is one of constant having to conform to be considered a good mature christian how sad
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How Does the Governing Body Extend its Control Over the Many Organizations?
by frankiespeakin inhow does the governing body extend its control over the many organizations that they made back in the year 2000 ?.
i think they have some type of by-laws in these corparations where they are to be in subjection to the wishes of the gb.. also thier may be some stipulations that the controlling members of each seperate corperation must be in good standing and can not function in any capacity if they are disfellowshipped.
thus the gb can alway use thier unlimited power to df to bring members in line or remove them if the gb feel threated.. i would think that the by-laws of these seperate entities are somewhat similar to the by-laws that form the congregation corperations in order for the congregation to be a legal corperation that can own property, where the by-laws state that they must remain in subjection to the gb.
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JT
frankispeaking says in his bio 29 years a WT slave and in the begining I was pretty pissed off about it. My real age is born 1953. I used 10/2/1914 for my date of birth to draw attention to how many years have past of that generation. My feeling of anger at the WT or anyone that has wronged me in anyway, has slowly subsided. Because what is,,is as it should be,,I should have known better,,I wasn't that careful and I paid the price, everything is as it should be. And that's that. But if I have oportunity to really kick the WT's ass,, I will take it. Not that I want revenge mind you,,well may be just a little,,,ahh who knows it is so hard to be honest with even one's self. I think I'm going to study up on Shamanism I seem to be headed that way caused by the crisis that the Governing Body put me thru by having me disfellowshipped and shunned 5 months after my mothers death. ########## your life exp is deep and now i have a much better perspective of your views and thoughts, folks it is good to have a bio for it provides each one of us with a little insight into the life exp of the person we are talking to thanks frankiespeaking for taking the time to share your DEEP li exp i will say it again as i have said for 8yrs on the net, it matters not what position we served in inthe wt,all of us have a story to tell and it should be told- some will say my life was not as exciting as so and so in the org, well i believe we all had lives that were impacted by wt one way or another- and we need to tell that story, and what ones begins to see very clearly is that all of these folks with different backgrounds were all impacted due to wt dogmas that impacted their lives once again i am glad i read frankispeaking bio, i give me a fresh perspective of his life and life exp thanks guy
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How Does the Governing Body Extend its Control Over the Many Organizations?
by frankiespeakin inhow does the governing body extend its control over the many organizations that they made back in the year 2000 ?.
i think they have some type of by-laws in these corparations where they are to be in subjection to the wishes of the gb.. also thier may be some stipulations that the controlling members of each seperate corperation must be in good standing and can not function in any capacity if they are disfellowshipped.
thus the gb can alway use thier unlimited power to df to bring members in line or remove them if the gb feel threated.. i would think that the by-laws of these seperate entities are somewhat similar to the by-laws that form the congregation corperations in order for the congregation to be a legal corperation that can own property, where the by-laws state that they must remain in subjection to the gb.
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JT
it is just that sometimes they sound a little too opinionated.
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my dear friend that is all i can give you and that is what my opinion is,
i can't give you anything else-
the question is --is the opinion based on fact or fiction and that is a call you will have to make- smile
but all i can say is -----all my family and wife's family are out and life has never been better for all of us
we fully understand that we wasted years working for an American Book Publishing company masquarading around as the very Mouth Pc of God on earth
today we are glad and thankful that we reaize that was a lie- smile
glad to no longer be apart of the Hoodwinked and Bamboozled Crowd
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How Does the Governing Body Extend its Control Over the Many Organizations?
by frankiespeakin inhow does the governing body extend its control over the many organizations that they made back in the year 2000 ?.
i think they have some type of by-laws in these corparations where they are to be in subjection to the wishes of the gb.. also thier may be some stipulations that the controlling members of each seperate corperation must be in good standing and can not function in any capacity if they are disfellowshipped.
thus the gb can alway use thier unlimited power to df to bring members in line or remove them if the gb feel threated.. i would think that the by-laws of these seperate entities are somewhat similar to the by-laws that form the congregation corperations in order for the congregation to be a legal corperation that can own property, where the by-laws state that they must remain in subjection to the gb.
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JT
just a side point on specualating on high ranking members of bethel trying a coup-
ray franz left the org in the late 70's and during that time not one High ranking member of the org has left- we do have some CO and we had a DO who left the org, but short of that in over 20yrs, not one bethel heavy has traded his cushy job at bethel for a real job on the outside, to speak against the org
and the likely hood is there will not be any mass exodus either- it would be great and good to see, but for many of those men they say how ray franz and dunlap were dragged across the coals and they learned a valuable lesson KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT
i was told that so many times when i was starting to examine the org, i was told
man if i were you i would leave it alone, don't ask me that question you don't want to go there, etc
what makes my exp nothing special at all is the fact that other bro who had any access to org matters were treated the exact same way when they started to question things on a higher level within the org
and this my friends is what happens to anyone regardless of what your title is will be treated, from a publisher, to someone who writes the Questions from Readers in the wt-
every jw knows that if they cross that line they will be dealt with
as one poster put it best, the wt rules with FEAR and that is at any and all levels
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How Does the Governing Body Extend its Control Over the Many Organizations?
by frankiespeakin inhow does the governing body extend its control over the many organizations that they made back in the year 2000 ?.
i think they have some type of by-laws in these corparations where they are to be in subjection to the wishes of the gb.. also thier may be some stipulations that the controlling members of each seperate corperation must be in good standing and can not function in any capacity if they are disfellowshipped.
thus the gb can alway use thier unlimited power to df to bring members in line or remove them if the gb feel threated.. i would think that the by-laws of these seperate entities are somewhat similar to the by-laws that form the congregation corperations in order for the congregation to be a legal corperation that can own property, where the by-laws state that they must remain in subjection to the gb.
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JT
Like i said if you caught me few years ago i would go around and round with you, of course i don;t know what every single person in the org know or feels, for you to conclude that i knew if every single person felt this way or that way would be foolish to say the least
my point was there are men who write the rules, enforce the rules and would have no problem dfing you and at the same time know many of the things jw teach and beleive are bogus-
i don;t claim to know it all, sad to say i just happen to be in a postion where i got to see the "Man Behind the Curtain" Up front and person,
i am slated to do a deposition in ref to how child abuse cases are handled by the elders and how we were instructed to handle such matters
whether you beleive what i say or not for me at this point in my life really doesn;'t matter, i no longer have the energy or desire to try and "Convince" you of what i know about the org-
my only suggestion is to continue to educate yourself - i have merely given you a prospective about the org, that I Know you don't know anything about, i was merely trying to provide you with some insight-
beleive no offense is taken i have been in this same conversation with so many jw in the last 8yrs i can't count it anymore
if you want speculation and grnd wishes such as "Soon the GB will be taken over by folks at bethel"
then continue on ,but if you want to know the general mindset of these men, then i will tell you
like they say Truth is often stranger than Fiction-
if you like to talk off line feel free i can be reached at [email protected]
we setup a phone service with unlimited long distance call, cause i am on the phone all the time wiht folks who want to know what little i do know about the org
we used to host in our home a jw support group for almost yrs in our home
DF, DA and just plain tired and worn out jw, who wanted toknow were they going crazy , were they the only one who thought so and so
my wife and i have helped 57 folks leave this org and not just leave, but to understand what they were apart of, and many of them are back in college- pursueing many of their dreams
because i had always been a very serious jw and a dyed in the wool Society Man, when i left many on both sides of our family wanted to know-
What in the world would make Jace give up all those privileges in the org-
As my fatherinlaw said to me in my living room, jace we love you and you have taken care of our daughter for years, but we may not agree with you ,but we at least WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE RAN ACROSS--
so i told them and where to go to do the research for themselves- and today, my mom, bros, sisters, many cousins as well as my inlaws, my sister in laws, their husband and a number of cousins on my wife side and just like you they said basically the same thing you have said when i told them things about the org
so i am used to seeing folks have a difficult time dealing with what happens behinds the curtain
i will tell you as i told my own folks, What you do with this info is up to you, but do me a favor
print out this thread, put it into an envelope, date it and in 5-10yr from day when you do the needed research to understand this org and how it works you will say:
"Damn that jace mentioned something along these lines to me back in 2005"
smile
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How Does the Governing Body Extend its Control Over the Many Organizations?
by frankiespeakin inhow does the governing body extend its control over the many organizations that they made back in the year 2000 ?.
i think they have some type of by-laws in these corparations where they are to be in subjection to the wishes of the gb.. also thier may be some stipulations that the controlling members of each seperate corperation must be in good standing and can not function in any capacity if they are disfellowshipped.
thus the gb can alway use thier unlimited power to df to bring members in line or remove them if the gb feel threated.. i would think that the by-laws of these seperate entities are somewhat similar to the by-laws that form the congregation corperations in order for the congregation to be a legal corperation that can own property, where the by-laws state that they must remain in subjection to the gb.
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JT
To be on these corporations they have already proved themselves GB ass-kissers and diehard loyalists ######### excelent point and this is the bottom line, if one fails tounderstand this simple concept that it will indeed be difficult to understand how the org works at that level we have seen elders quit their jobs for 20min district part, why is it so difficult to understand a man who started out in cleaning at bethel now being given the priviledge of running a whole country as a branch overseer would not be loyal to the Hand that Feed him- considering that the same hand can call him into their office and say: "John we feel it would be best for you and becky to return back to Tenn and join the ranks of the Pioneer ministry" But bro i have been at bethel since 1966, we have no family on the outside, we are the only folks in our family in the truth- unfortunately john we will not be able to give you a good recommendation for reappointment as an elder either, but you and becky can pioneer please tell me what this man life is going to be like when he gets to a hall after being a Former Branch committe member and now he can't even read the WT on sunday??when the co rolls in town,he is calling bethel to ask whats up with john and they will say KEEP and eye on him he has shown signs of doubting the org,so we let him at least pioneer this has happened so many times and so when others see these guys get th shaft for challengeing the org- do you think they are moved to try it themselves I THINK NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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How Does the Governing Body Extend its Control Over the Many Organizations?
by frankiespeakin inhow does the governing body extend its control over the many organizations that they made back in the year 2000 ?.
i think they have some type of by-laws in these corparations where they are to be in subjection to the wishes of the gb.. also thier may be some stipulations that the controlling members of each seperate corperation must be in good standing and can not function in any capacity if they are disfellowshipped.
thus the gb can alway use thier unlimited power to df to bring members in line or remove them if the gb feel threated.. i would think that the by-laws of these seperate entities are somewhat similar to the by-laws that form the congregation corperations in order for the congregation to be a legal corperation that can own property, where the by-laws state that they must remain in subjection to the gb.
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JT
I was at the London Bethel for a few years and it was no spiritual haven. I had some good times but there was always the fear and absolute disgrace that came with being kicked out for breaking the rules. I did not find the "family" in the "Bethel Family".
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bingo and this is why it is so important for us who have seen both sides of the org to tell our story
my wife and i have been dogged as it were by so many folks over the last 8yrs
you guys need to write a book and tell your story , so this summer we plan on starting it, in fact we plan on taking this Dog and Pony Show on the road
since many nonjw know that i used to be an elder , many have invited me over the years to come to speak before their groups, churches, etc and tell the story about life as a jw
and my wife and i have decided that by the of the year, we will have this Dog and Pony Show on the road