Not really- although, as undercover stated, I am starting to pay more attention (when I'm not tired).
I usually will just end up drifting off on a scripture, reading it to get the context of it, and there have been many occasions where I have seen firsthand scriptures get taken out of context (by the CO!)...
But yeah, when you grow up hearing the same verbal diarrhea, it almost seems like you zone out, like an automatic function.
confliction
JoinedPosts by confliction
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26
Did You Ever Really Listen At The Meetings?
by minimus intoward the end of my meeting attendance, i started to pay attention (as best as i could) to what was being said and that was truly the final nail in the coffin.. when you actually decipher the "reasoning" of the "truth", you can't help but see things clearly..
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confliction
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11
How to write a letter of D/A... and what happens when I do?
by confliction infirst off, i'm almost definite somebody else has already posted, asked this question, but i'm too lazy to look right now lol.... about half a year of contemplation, evaluation, and calculation has led up to making this decision, so here it is.. .
because of a multitude of circumstances, i don't believe fading will be an option as i originally thought, and i frankly refuse to waste any more years of my life trying to pretend to believe something i clearly do not, and preserve a connection to people who don't even have the decency to speak to me or befriend me as a fellow human being.
i am alienated as it is- i guess i'm just a weird and shy person, and that will not change anytime soon.. i plan to - in the coming months when the time is right - present a letter of disassociation from the congregation, and the watchtower society.. .
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confliction
OTWO:
Yeah, I think I plan to do something like that... Is there like, a specific elder it should be sent to, or just any of the elders will do fine? Perhaps the service overseer, for example... -
11
How to write a letter of D/A... and what happens when I do?
by confliction infirst off, i'm almost definite somebody else has already posted, asked this question, but i'm too lazy to look right now lol.... about half a year of contemplation, evaluation, and calculation has led up to making this decision, so here it is.. .
because of a multitude of circumstances, i don't believe fading will be an option as i originally thought, and i frankly refuse to waste any more years of my life trying to pretend to believe something i clearly do not, and preserve a connection to people who don't even have the decency to speak to me or befriend me as a fellow human being.
i am alienated as it is- i guess i'm just a weird and shy person, and that will not change anytime soon.. i plan to - in the coming months when the time is right - present a letter of disassociation from the congregation, and the watchtower society.. .
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confliction
First off, I'm almost definite somebody else has already posted, asked this question, but I'm too lazy to look right now lol...
About half a year of contemplation, evaluation, and calculation has led up to making this decision, so here it is.
Because of a multitude of circumstances, I don't believe fading will be an option as I originally thought, and I frankly refuse to waste any more years of my life trying to pretend to believe something I clearly do not, and preserve a connection to people who don't even have the decency to speak to me or befriend me as a fellow human being. I am alienated as it is- I guess I'm just a weird and shy person, and that will not change anytime soon.I plan to - in the coming months when the time is right - present a letter of disassociation from the congregation, and the watchtower society.
How does one go about writing this letter, and if you have written one, could you either pm me or post here what you wrote?
Also, what should I expect to happen after the letter is received (e.g. elder visits, a reply with a plea, etc) and what can I do/write/say to avoid situations like these?
I just want to sever my ties with the least drama possible.
Optimally, I would hope to just send the letter, and that be the end of it.
But I don't know what happens, so if you've been there, done that, please enlighten me. -
30
Dealing with the reality of death. How do you?
by confliction insince i've come to the realization and conclusion that i've been living a fictional lifestyle for the last 17 years, i've also come to identify with agnosticism.. .
but one issue that's been taking it's emotional toll on me lately is the realization of the fictitious paradisiac earth.. it was the ultimate goal as a witness- the answer to everything.
even if you had questions that couldn't be answered, you were to "wait until the paradise and ask" when you got there.. .
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confliction
Cult Classic:
I have to agree with everyone. Actually I had a major meltdown once I realized I was actually going to die. Imagine that! After being told from birth that I would live forever then to be hit by reality in my 30s. It wasn't easy. But you will get over it.
Most people don't want to die. But there is a certain acceptance of the cycle of life that we were not privy to as witnesses. It is the very nature of things to die. We'll be no better or worse off than anyone else.Yeah, I think you've pretty much said what I meant- it's not that death really bothers me... I'm not necessarily afraid of dying, per se, but I'm having one of those life change episodes, and am having sort of a breakdown, like you. We lived our entire lives being told (and beliving!) that we would never see death, and that we didn't have to do or worry about many things, because we would never die, and all these different things, that you believe growing up as a jw.
When you're born into it, that's all you ever knew. But if you at some point in your life just became a jw, and then left, you just go back to reality- something that you already knew for the most part was coming, and understood.
It's hard to accept death if you never took seriously.Thanks for all the encouragement and advice, guys- I'll see if I can find some of the books some of you suggest.
And to eyes wide shut- I honestly accept and appreciate your advice. At this point in my life and through what I have learned so far, I have many doubts about the legitimacy about even the bible itself... But I try to live my life evaluating things objectively. Contradictions do not necessarily discredit some of the advice found in it.
If the evidence I glean on a subject favors one idea over another, I gravitate towards that side, naturally- not holding onto a bias because of fear or a sense of obligation to something untrue. That is what I call my "truth", and hopefully that's how it will remain.
But at the same time, I never want to discriminate someone on their beliefs because they don't match up with mine, as long it isn't destructive, doesn't manipulate and judge others, and break apart otherwise close and loving people over an idea. That's wrong, and is one of the many reasons I'm leaving.
With that in mind, though, what you have suggested couldn't hurt to try, and I will definitely look into it and give a hand at prayer; who knows what could happen. You sound like an honest, caring and kind person and I hope you keep that with you all of your days.To everyone else, thanks, and I wish the best to all of you- even the ones who may feel I'm their enemy...
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Belief in Heaven causing people to commit Murder suicides...like the Texas Mayor in the news?
by Witness 007 ina texas mayor killed her 19 year old daughter and then herself in a murder suicide this week.
their father/husband had died of cancer recently, and i find many cases like this where suicidal people take their family with them hoping that they will be together in "heaven.
she was under investigation for credit card fraud.
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confliction
lol then wouldn't they be going to hell? Just sayin....
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30
Dealing with the reality of death. How do you?
by confliction insince i've come to the realization and conclusion that i've been living a fictional lifestyle for the last 17 years, i've also come to identify with agnosticism.. .
but one issue that's been taking it's emotional toll on me lately is the realization of the fictitious paradisiac earth.. it was the ultimate goal as a witness- the answer to everything.
even if you had questions that couldn't be answered, you were to "wait until the paradise and ask" when you got there.. .
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confliction
@alice
I don't understand what you're trying to gain from repeatedly invading my threads with... whatever it is you're trying to say. I'm not trying to attack and insult you, so why do you do to others what you don't want done to you?
Because I'm not personally entitled nor required to refute every episode of ignorance in the world, I will just say this.
The bible appeals to the idea of eternal life- great.
The bible says that God put it in our hearts to live forever, thus why people seem to want to. Great.
The issue here is where you start saying that medical professionals speak of desperacy when people have impending threats to their life.
All I can say is that you have dumbfounded me. Every organism in the world will fight for it's life if it feels threatened- this is one of the most basic biological functions of almost all organisms called the fight-or-flight mechanism. The fact that people get desperate during the end of their life is no different. So, once again, you can attribute a natrual function inherent for survival to your almighty deity, or can choose not to add to the explanation something that has no evidential backing. Doesn't this mean that God also put it in the hearts of animals to live forever? But WT theology obviously states only humans want to and will live forever. To me this all just seems to exploit the basic human desire for "more".
As to the reason people want to live long and fight for it with this desperate response is because the longer you live, the better chance you have of finding a mate for reproduction, the more time you have to collect information and interpret the data around you, and then you get to pass this information on to the next generation. Thus, we fight to live as long as we can and do not desire to die, simply because death means that you are no longer in existence to do so. Add on to this the layer of consciousness and intelligence in the human mind and this basic biological function becomes expounded upon and unnecissarily reasoned upon by people like you, and those who wrote the bible.
I find it interesting that all of "God's" wisdom always seems to be by proxy through man.The fact that you call my questions "ridicules" is insulting, and shows how human you are.
All I can say is that you need to get ready for the reality of death in your organization, because you will die. Your life will come to an end. If you try everything in your life to avoid that fact, including logic and common sense, it shows your weakness and aversion to the reality of mortality. And since you have this weakness, the WT exploits it by placing the "carrot" of everlasting life in front of you. This gives you hope, even when all logic goes against it- once again, represented by human emotions overriding the logical mind.
Because of this, you have surrounded yourself with information to confirm beliefs that you would otherwise be unsure of, and try to demolish evidence that contradicts it. Because of this desperacy to fight against opposing evidence, I see a long road ahead of you, as there is a lot of evidence you have to get rid of or ignore.
Good luck with that. -
30
Dealing with the reality of death. How do you?
by confliction insince i've come to the realization and conclusion that i've been living a fictional lifestyle for the last 17 years, i've also come to identify with agnosticism.. .
but one issue that's been taking it's emotional toll on me lately is the realization of the fictitious paradisiac earth.. it was the ultimate goal as a witness- the answer to everything.
even if you had questions that couldn't be answered, you were to "wait until the paradise and ask" when you got there.. .
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confliction
@SixofNine
I know exactly what you mean- it's a very natural thing, and nobody on EARTH has ever truly escaped it (unless you count Jesus? Debatable...) so it makes sense that I shouldn't fear it. It's just getting the opposite out of your head- I don't know your background, but when you're born being told you'll never die, and believe it for most of your life, it's hard not to automatically think otherwise. I guess that's another issue to chalk up for father time...
@miseryloveselders
Yeah, we're on about the same page here- life pretty much just looks like a giant ball of haphazard randomness right now- I don't know what to believe, and I'm not going to waste any more of my life trying to find "truth", when reality is for the most part an objective experience, and complete absolute truth of anything is highly improbable- likely impossible.
Why waste your life trying to find "truth", or place yourself in the great crowd of the credulous?
And I'm also suspicious as to the divine backing of the bible... too many arguments as to it's legitimacy come in to play to really believe it. Such as the argument that the fact that it's lasted so many years without being destroyed as proof. This could easily be refuted by the fact that people were willing to die to preserve it through history, simply because of the fact that they thought it was a book from God. Then the argument becomes circular reasoning in itself... idk really what to think about all of it, you know? Oh well, haha. -
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Dealing with the reality of death. How do you?
by confliction insince i've come to the realization and conclusion that i've been living a fictional lifestyle for the last 17 years, i've also come to identify with agnosticism.. .
but one issue that's been taking it's emotional toll on me lately is the realization of the fictitious paradisiac earth.. it was the ultimate goal as a witness- the answer to everything.
even if you had questions that couldn't be answered, you were to "wait until the paradise and ask" when you got there.. .
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confliction
Hi all,
Since I've come to the realization and conclusion that I've been living a fictional lifestyle for the last 17 years, I've also come to identify with agnosticism.
But one issue that's been taking it's emotional toll on me lately is the realization of the fictitious paradisiac earth.
It was the ultimate goal as a Witness- the answer to everything. Even if you had questions that couldn't be answered, you were to "Wait until the paradise and ask" when you got there.
I've centered my entire life around it; everything I do, and everything I've ever looked forward to...
While I don't immediately rule out the possibility of heaven, or the afterlife, I only "believe" in them on an "I'll find out when I get there" basis- nothing I would go out of my way in the path of life to conform to. I now understand that this may be the only life I will get.
But the reality of imminent death is something that's really bothering me lately... it's something that's really hard to come to terms with when it's something you didn't think would ever happen to you.
For others here on the board who have been through this "phase", what did you do that helped you "get over it", so to speak- if you ever did?
I realize nobody really gets over death, lol, but what things did you do, and what did you spend all your freedom and time doing to occupy the "void"?
I've spent the entire day just moaping around like a pitiful emo kid, rambling in my head about the pointlessness of life lol- how do you move on?
Try aiming your answers also for others that are waking up to reality also- as I'm sure many have and will be on this road. -
21
Passion of the [Irony].
by confliction ini was just wondering.... why do we jw's make such a big deal about jesus dying on a pole, as opposed to a cross?.
the original word, albeit, can lean either way.
and seems in favor of a pole rather than a cross.
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confliction
@Yknot
Thusly, I and many born/raised in my hall, don't wear them.......
Really?
Well, I guess I have come to assume that WT Theology and rules are generally united from culture to culture...
But I guess this is an american thing... interesting. They make marriage rings a "conscience matter" here- what about where you live?
Is it a rule or still a "conscience matter" that people generally choose not to do? -
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Passion of the [Irony].
by confliction ini was just wondering.... why do we jw's make such a big deal about jesus dying on a pole, as opposed to a cross?.
the original word, albeit, can lean either way.
and seems in favor of a pole rather than a cross.
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confliction
Well, I don't think being a pagan symbol has anything much to do with the fact that Jesus either died on one log or two... but then again, even though it is a pagan symbol I'm sure they could play it off if they wanted to.
For example, marriage rings are pagan in origin, yet we justify the use of them because in modern days they are not recognized as such, and are used for a logical purpose- like a mark to signify marriage and unavailability as a married person.
Idol worship could probably be played off also- just tell your sheeple that 'he died on a cross, but we are not to worship, pray to, or in any other form, give undue significance to it. Just don't do what general christianity does, basically.
I'm sure that with the legalistic reasoning skills the WT has, they could find an excuse and sell it.
Of course, I'm speaking of an unknown parallel reality, so why bother lol.