respectful_observer

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Posts by respectful_observer

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  142

  Undercover Brother Campaign- have you received your invite?

  by stuckinamovement in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  without specifics being mentioned as to what it is......(to avoid tipping off certain lurkers).. how many people know about the upcoming summer long campaign?

  please use this thread to confirm receipt of your campaign invitation.

  take care.

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  respectful_observer

  I'd love to receive the invite. Please PM me.

  R_O
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  13

  Can't reconcile the JW concept of "temptation"

  by respectful_observer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when told recently of someone in the congregation who had "given in to temptation", the person relating the incident said: "satan waited until just the right moment to tempt br.

  weak.

  i began thinking about the correlation between temptation, free will, and what jws teach about wicked spirit creatures' abilities (or lack thereof).. jws teach that wicked spirit forces can affect the material world-- move objects, speak in audible voice, create visions, possess living creatures (humans included); yet they also teach that they cannot read or manipulate our thoughts.

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  respectful_observer

  DesirousOfChange, I agree with the explanation you propose they'd put forth. It explains how the "tempted" might recognized by demons as suddenly vulnerable to temptation, but it doesn't explain what is physically causing the "tempter" to suddenly choose that moment to strike. The WTS is attributes the temptation to wicked spirit manipulation...but they never explain how that manipulation of the tempter takes place (again, without making the drastic claim that it's demonic possession).
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  13

  Can't reconcile the JW concept of "temptation"

  by respectful_observer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when told recently of someone in the congregation who had "given in to temptation", the person relating the incident said: "satan waited until just the right moment to tempt br.

  weak.

  i began thinking about the correlation between temptation, free will, and what jws teach about wicked spirit creatures' abilities (or lack thereof).. jws teach that wicked spirit forces can affect the material world-- move objects, speak in audible voice, create visions, possess living creatures (humans included); yet they also teach that they cannot read or manipulate our thoughts.

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  respectful_observer

  When told recently of someone in the congregation who had "given in to temptation", the person relating the incident said: "Satan waited until just the right moment to tempt Br. Weak."

  I began thinking about the correlation between temptation, free will, and what JWs teach about wicked spirit creatures' abilities (or lack thereof).

  JWs teach that wicked spirit forces CAN affect the material world-- move objects, speak in audible voice, create visions, possess living creatures (humans included); yet they also teach that they cannot read or manipulate our thoughts.

  As in the case mentioned above, when someone is "seduced" into immorality, Satan is charged with having tempted that person at that moment in time. Since no wicked spirit can read (and therefore influence) a particular person's mind at a single point in time, the only JW-worthy explanation is that the non-JW who acted as the "temptress" must have been literally posessed by a wicked spirit at that point in time. It would mean the temptress had free will removed for a time and that her body was literally not under her own control-- she was literally turned into a demon surrogate during the encounter.

  I've never seen anything in WTS literature that directly makes the claim that those who are tempted by Satan into immorality are being tempted by someone under demon possession-- but that's the only explanation that seems to back the claim that Satan can "strike" with this temptation at a specific weak moment in time.

  (Aside: Satan tempted Jesus only through vision-- not by using anything material or with any person.)

  Thoughts?

  R_O
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  74

  CO's putting the screws on elder bodies, and ministerial servants to auxilliary pioneer this April.

  by miseryloveselders in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have such a love/hate, 50/50 relationship with this organization any more, but a letter was read to the elders and ministerial servants that has pushed me to the 30/70 range in favor of hate, if even momentarily.

  most of you if not all are aware of the auxilliary pioneering initiative for this upcoming april.

  it's no secret that i'm not real fond of pioneering as its unscriptural for one thing.

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  respectful_observer

  I wish I could say, "no one saw this coming"-- but the sad part is, most of us did. Nothing like a letter from the CO, announcements from the platform, and peer pressure to compel you to turn in your application! Truly in keeping with 2 Cor 9:7 and "not [give] under compulsion"... oh wait, never mind.

  (At least if you do turn in your slip, you'll only spend most of your time simply passing out Memorial invitations!)
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  38

  Did you have higher ed when you were in? If so how were you treated as a result?

  by highdose in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i went to both collage and uni when i was a jw, i got marked and shunned as a result.

  it seemed like every week there would be some dig made from the platform about " those that chose higher education" , my so called "freinds" were constandly on at me " why don't you pioneer highdose?!!".

  i even had the ciruit overseer denounce me from the platform as being "spirtualy weak" never mind that most of the peers i grew up with had got themselves reproved or disfellowed and that i was the only who had been good!.

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  respectful_observer

  Now you have me paranoid...I should do a search for all my old posts and see what I may have misspelled!
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  38

  Did you have higher ed when you were in? If so how were you treated as a result?

  by highdose in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i went to both collage and uni when i was a jw, i got marked and shunned as a result.

  it seemed like every week there would be some dig made from the platform about " those that chose higher education" , my so called "freinds" were constandly on at me " why don't you pioneer highdose?!!".

  i even had the ciruit overseer denounce me from the platform as being "spirtualy weak" never mind that most of the peers i grew up with had got themselves reproved or disfellowed and that i was the only who had been good!.

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  respectful_observer

  For someone so well educated - you can't even spell A-P-O-S-T-A-T-E

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/204486/1/Oppostate-you-have-a-PM

  cantleave,

  I assure you I can spell "apostate", but I appreciate your attention to detail!

  I'd also like to introduce you to your fellow forum member, "Oppostate":

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/member/34708
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  38

  Did you have higher ed when you were in? If so how were you treated as a result?

  by highdose in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i went to both collage and uni when i was a jw, i got marked and shunned as a result.

  it seemed like every week there would be some dig made from the platform about " those that chose higher education" , my so called "freinds" were constandly on at me " why don't you pioneer highdose?!!".

  i even had the ciruit overseer denounce me from the platform as being "spirtualy weak" never mind that most of the peers i grew up with had got themselves reproved or disfellowed and that i was the only who had been good!.

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  respectful_observer

  DoC,

  You have a PM
• 
  38

  Did you have higher ed when you were in? If so how were you treated as a result?

  by highdose in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i went to both collage and uni when i was a jw, i got marked and shunned as a result.

  it seemed like every week there would be some dig made from the platform about " those that chose higher education" , my so called "freinds" were constandly on at me " why don't you pioneer highdose?!!".

  i even had the ciruit overseer denounce me from the platform as being "spirtualy weak" never mind that most of the peers i grew up with had got themselves reproved or disfellowed and that i was the only who had been good!.

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  respectful_observer

  I, and all my siblings, eared our 4-year degrees. Fortunately, most of my peers were able to do the same in our congregation-- including most of the elders' kids (our family included) without any real trouble from others.

  To the best of my knowlege, all (including myself) are still "in" and most are "core" members of the congregations they now attend. Some have even gone back and are currently working on advanced degrees (even while they serve as MS's or elders).
• 
  64

  Call me paranoid, but its possible that this 30 hour initiative is a weeding out process....a cull if you will...

  by miseryloveselders in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we've discussed a few potential reasons why the wt is promoting april 2011 as a month of special activity.

  reasons include manipulating statistics, and trying to provide some kind of spark to increasingly apathetic and discouraged congregations.

  i'm sure there are others i'm missing too, feel free to include those.

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  respectful_observer

  DPL,

  I had to laugh at your “side note”. I’ve always found it remarkable how people love to introduce themselves or others with their “spiritual resume”:

  “Hi, I’m R_O, nice to meet you. Where are you from?”

  “I’m Br/Sr. Spiritual. I’m a Pioneer in the Metropolis South Congregation.”

  It drives my friends and me bananas when people do that. What makes it all the more ridiculous is that it’s often Pioneers that end up in the most scandalous situations. (“…and they were a FULL TIME PIONEER the whole time!! Can you believe it??” … “Why, yes. Yes I can.”)

  “Pioneer”….the only title in the entire organization that allows you to do exactly the same thing that anyone else in the congregation can do if they want.

  R_O
• 
  64

  Call me paranoid, but its possible that this 30 hour initiative is a weeding out process....a cull if you will...

  by miseryloveselders in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we've discussed a few potential reasons why the wt is promoting april 2011 as a month of special activity.

  reasons include manipulating statistics, and trying to provide some kind of spark to increasingly apathetic and discouraged congregations.

  i'm sure there are others i'm missing too, feel free to include those.

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  respectful_observer

  Cantleave, I can imagine the words now: "Brothers, you have these privileges in the congregation because you at one time were seen as 'taking the lead' in many things-- including the ministry. Really then, you should think seriously whether you still meet these qualifications if you cannot 'buy out the time' to pioneer even once during the year. If you cannot 'buy out' even 30 hours during the 'Special Activity' of the Memorial season, can you still be viewed by the congregation as 'taking the lead'? If not, it may be worth considering whether you are continuing to meet the qualifications needed for your responsibilities."

  This is exactly what prompted my earlier comment about someday making this an implicit/explicit requirement to continue serving as an MS/Elder.