Posts by respectful

10

2 words for truth in Russian, for wt writers too?

by prologos in

ny times article: "--- 2 words for truth in russian,--" pravda, the malleable truth, and istina, the unchangeable cosmic reality.

it looks like wt writers like that, or think like that.

wt is constantly changing the surface truth, but can not change the underlying reality, no matter how many groups they overlap.

respectful_observer

Interesting thought.

It reminds me of a conversation I recently had with a former elder who is now wide awake (I thought for sure he'd already been a long standing member here, but I was the one to make him aware of the whole ARC issue only a few weeks ago). After he watched sections of the ARC coverage that addressed the concept of "theocratic warfare", he postulated the theory that the GB knows the actual "truth" of things-- that it's likely Jesus died on a crucifix instead of a solitary stake; that Jerusulem wasn't destroyed in 607 BCE; that there's really nothing wrong with birthdays; that the sacredness of blood means it should only be used for the most sacred duty-- preservation of life. Yet, they see it as their justifiable duty to continue teaching "The Truth" (vs. the actual truth) because their job is to keep people's faith strong and keep them in the Organization-- even if it means they utilize "theocratic warfare" strategies with their own flock.

So for them, "The Truth" is whatever they see as most likely to keep the flock's faith strong at the time and keep them in the Org (pravda), not the actual truth on any one matter (istina).

23

Standing for the National Anthem?

by eyeslice2 in

we are currently living in a country where at the cinema the national anthem is played before the start of the movie and it is law that you stand.

does anyone know what current jw thinking is on this?

i know there has been various changes over the years.

respectful_observer

Growing up in the U.S. I was always taught to stand respectfully for the flag salute, but to remain seated for the National Anthem. The "rule" was always do one less step than what would be considered "participation". Since most people simply stand for the National Anthem (vs. singing), standing would be viewed as participation.

I recently postulated to a group of JWs whether that would change, as recently some prominent sports stars have refused to stand for the National Anthem to show solidarity with the "Black Lives Matter" movement. Suddenly sitting for the National Anthem is seen as a political statement instead of simple non-participation.

18

My mother's treatment. Unreal.

by quellycatface in

jw
friends

i disassociated myself 3 years ago but have never told my mother, as she lives quite a distance from me in the uk.

i've have told her that i no longer go to meetings, neither does my son, who is 16.. i haven't seen her for 3 1/2 years.

i offered to come visit this week but she was incredibly offhand with me and said she couldn't meet with me today as she was on the ministry!!

respectful_observer

I spent $1700 traveling several states away to visit my elderly mom on short notice, so the flight was expensive. "The Friends" 😬 said she was unwell and I should come. Of the five days I was out there, I saw her three times. The last day of my trip, Sunday, she left me sitting in a motel room while she went to the meeting; afterwards she went to lunch with "the friends." She texted me at 4:30 in the afternoon that she was free and I could come over now.

She wonders why I didn't come visit her this year. Gee, I wonder why.

Sounds like my parents, and we are still "in"! My parents are disappointed we don't "reach out" more, but have learned to stop bringing that up and pestering us on the issue. Instead they are just passive aggressive in expressing their feelings on how important theocratic activities are.

Although they constantly lament that they never got to see us (we lived several hours away), whenever did come out for a weekend visit, would they adjust they're schedules? Nope. They still went out in service on Saturday; still went to KH cleaning and held all their Bible studies; still went to the meeting on Sunday and took the speaker out to hospitality afterward. After everything was finally done about 3:00 on a Sunday, we would start packing up for our drive home. They would immediately start in on how they barely got to spend any time with us all weekend!

We finally had our fill when circumstances moved us a 12hr+ flight from them, to where it's unlikely we'll be back for several years. We proposed coming out for one last weekend visit to spend with the family (out-of-town siblings and spouses included). Brother-in-law couldn't come at all because he had a talk out on Sunday. Mom and Dad still went out in Saturday service and still left us to go to the meeting on Sunday (they're trying to reinforce a "spiritual routine" with my 7 year old nephew). Meanwhile, we took my brother and his wife out to a nice champagne brunch. By the time they made it back from the Sunday meeting, we were packing up for our trip home. They're getting to the age where it's obvious they'll never learn.

And they wonder why we aren't close as a family?!

38

"We Had No Idea How Manipulative He Can Be!"

by pale.emperor in

very stressfull and upsetting evening was had last night.

i dropped my 2yo daughter off to my ex-wifes home.

all seemed good until i got home.

respectful_observer

"Do not make it about religion in the courts, simply make it about behaviors."

Yup, what pbrow said.

JWs love to frame issues that should be handled in a court of law into a "congregation matter". I've seen this several times first-hand with a good friend. Whenever he caves to his ex wife and handles it with the congregation he loses-- custody, school choice, financial matters, you name it; when he stands firm and refuses to bring the brothers in and forces the courts to oversee, he wins...every time.

38

"We Had No Idea How Manipulative He Can Be!"

by pale.emperor in

very stressfull and upsetting evening was had last night.

i dropped my 2yo daughter off to my ex-wifes home.

all seemed good until i got home.

respectful_observer

Because on one of the days that i had my daughter i visited a family that was putting up their christmas tree with their little kids. My daughter was overjoyed with the decorations and helped. She danced with the other little kids, painted, played with toys, had lunch and a fun time was had by all. I wasnt keeping this a secret from my wife but i didnt tell her about it either. She called me, absolutely livid, because our daughter had mixed with non-JW children, had put up a christmas tree and been in someones house that she didnt know.

So let me get this straight, she's livid because someone who's not a JW took his daughter to a house with other non-JWs. And the non-JWs proceded to decorate for Christmas.

Shocking.

Beyond the pale.

21

Has there ever been a time when someone has been outed as a JW mole on this forum?

by Tenacious in

having been a jw for decades i'm used to watching what i do, say, or watch, in fear of being snitched on.. therefore, i the question begs.. there have been instances, i won't say how, where i've felt some members are being deliberate in their attempt to feign support for the anti-jw rhetoric on this forum.. any input is greatly appreciated..

respectful_observer

I always have a fear of a mole from my congregation monitoring this site, which is why when I make any posts pertaining to my personal life, I intentionally scramble a couple of details to throw them off.

I think many here have done the same. With the vast majority of my posts, I've written them with the thought of "If I got called into a meeting with the elders and all my comments here were sitting printed out in a pile, would it be enough for them to DF me?"

43

If this system goes on.

by karter in

jw
friends

i heard my hard out jw sister say that for the 1st time in many years and i'm hearing more and more jw's saying that.

years ago when i was in they talked about the new system coming any minute..

respectful_observer

It doesn't help when we have a CO tell us from the stage that "It is an inspired expression of error to not believe the end will come in our lifetime". (btw, does anyone know why the quote" function here no longer works in Explorer?)

What people tend to forget is that "zealous" Christians since Jesus death have ALL believed that the end would come in their lifetimes. That's hundreds and hundreds of generations over THOUSANDS of years. Why is our's suddenly the one? Ah, because that's what the Bible tells us. (Oh wait, but that's exactly what every other generation has argued too.)

63

"Just around the corner." The dumbest song that I have ever heard..

by DATA-DOG in

i'm at my quasi-thanksgiving dinner with relatives.

i hear a haunting sound from another room.

"is that a children's song?

respectful_observer

"Just around the corner...."

More accurate to say they've "Gone 'round the bend'..." on this one.

16

The Metropolitan Museum Oasis Bible Tours in NYC

by Beachlover in

jw
friends

i just came home from a day in nyc and was taken to the met for the the woman and her offspring tour i went to keep peace and just enjoy my family.

i've been to the metrpolitan museum of art on many occasions and have enjoyed spending time wandering thru the exhibits appreciating the art and history.

since all family members wanted to do the tour by the wts entitled a woman and her offspring, i thought i could just follow along and just enjoy the art and exhibits.. in all honesty, i'm still amazed at this whole tour.

respectful_observer

Had anyone else been thru this? I just want to get along but this is was no real history, it was a few artifacts and iPad WT videos.

Yup. I had to endure this tour. Within minutes I was so embarrassed to be associated with what the guide was saying to our group, I spent most of my time looking at other artifacts in the same gallaries. I could only imagine the other tourists off the street were thinking, "what a bunch of weirdos", as they overheard the craziness in that script.

I did finally call the guide out on something when we were shown some object (sorry, can't remember what it was) that was claimed to be "the oldest item in the Museum" (of course backed up his whole "woman and the seed" theory). The date printed on the plaque was clearly centuries later than other items in the very same room. When I pointed that out, along with the fact that it pre-dated the WT teaching on how long ago Adam and Eve lived, he was not very happy.

Thankfully the museum dining room served beer and wine at lunch! Everyone else in the group gave us looks for that one, like we were drinking at the assembly or something.

24

My mom contacted me last night...

by HereIgo in

as i have revealed in other threads my mother and i havent talked in over 2 years.

she has been keeping her distance, therefore staying loyal to jehovah.

she found me on facebook.

respectful_observer

All of your questions could be answered if you put Jehovah to the test, but I cant convince you, you have to allow it, we will talk soon."

"Mom, if you understood what I wrote, you would see that I have 'put Jehovah to the test'. I just listed a half dozen questions I had for him on 'the test' and he didn't answer a single one. To me, he was put to the test and failed...or at least failed to even show up for the test."

respectful_observer

Posts by respectful_observer