Posts by witnessdater

41

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 04-10-2011 WT Study (CREATION)

by blondie in

jw
friends

the physical heavens, the earth, and everything.

heavens themselves were made, and by the.

creative days three through six, god created.

witnessdater

Cadelin,

I certainly don't claim to know everything about evolutionary theory. But, the argument at hand, that evolution (the combination of mutation and natural selection) brought forth from either amino acids or say, one organism, all of the life on earth including us, can be observed in very general terms to where one does not have to know all of the science of it. It is observed (which is the essence of science - observation) that mutations do not add - they change what is already there not to a new species but change attributes, or take away, or actually cause sickness. In essence, the do not create. This is my main point. The question about the arm out of the head was a joke, but all humor has some truth to it. If this is all random, and not part of a plan of creation, then why do we not see much more mutations that miraculously produce humans with a zoom lens in their eyeball for instance? Or six fingers on each hand? Anything significantly different?

Natural selection obviously eliminates. Only the strong survive is the principle, and the result is less species.

And not only could the theory not play out in 6000 years, it couldn't have occured in billions.

As for fossils, the reason they haven't found the transitional fossils is because they are not there to find.

41

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 04-10-2011 WT Study (CREATION)

by blondie in

jw
friends

the physical heavens, the earth, and everything.

heavens themselves were made, and by the.

creative days three through six, god created.

witnessdater

Hamster,

The vast majority of visible mutations are admitted by the evolutionists themselves to be bad. Furthermore, it has not been shown experimentally that mutation and natural selection can produce new structures or organs. Most mutations are deleterious or change (lots of times for the worse)something that is already there, they do not create livers, hearts, arms and legs. Limited changes have been observed in all species, but that does not prove that these species could evolve in millions of years into entirely different kinds of creatures. Scientists merely assume that this happened in the past when no scientists were present to observe the process.

The human skin cell itself is so complex, it would all have to have evolved all at once (by sheer chance with no intent by anything), or that cell would have died or would not have done its job. Same for the human eye. This is the principle of irreducible complexity. But your argument is that from all of the chance, accidental mutations of the past, the result we have is absolute beauty and order in our organism and universe.

41

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 04-10-2011 WT Study (CREATION)

by blondie in

jw
friends

the physical heavens, the earth, and everything.

heavens themselves were made, and by the.

creative days three through six, god created.

witnessdater

"Since nothing evidently does NOT exist, the universe as we know it is more likely, though we cannot, as said above prove the mathematical probability of this unique event that did nevertheless happen."

Hamster,

Just because we are conscious and what is here is obviously here, that means that we cannot observe the fact that if certain measured or calculated physical forces were off by a trillionth of a percent, then the universe would have collapsed long ago? What you are saying to me is that ANY universe is equally as improbable as this. But when you put the cosmological constants into the picture, that isn't true. Any other universe would not exist, it would die. In any case, we'd never know. Just because we are here does not mean we can't make these observations, and then deduce that it is highly improbable that the universe was not created. Or, in other words, if it were virtually any other way, there would not be anything.

41

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 04-10-2011 WT Study (CREATION)

by blondie in

jw
friends

the physical heavens, the earth, and everything.

heavens themselves were made, and by the.

creative days three through six, god created.

witnessdater

Hamster,

Most notably, your response was merely intended to insult, rather than provide much to think about. This is usually the mark of someone who can't think of much worthwhile to say. CS Lewis once said " Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable."

First, everything has a cause. If you are a scientist, you must admit this. Second, if everything has a cause, then, if the rule is followed strictly, the series of causes would go into the past for infinity. This cannot be, else we would never arrived at the present. Since this cannot be, this means there must have been an ultimate uncaused cause. This uncaused cause must be intelligent, else it is the result of something else and is not the first uncaused cause.

On your question about God killing people in the Bible, can you give me an example of when God killed people without any strong warning directly from him? Because I know that if God appeared to me in a dream or vision and warned me, I would probably obey. It is probably about as fair as you can get.

The container of black balls - you've got it wrong also. It is not just the probability at stake here, but the specified probability of a life-permitting universe existing. This may also PROVE nothing, but you have to use your logic along with knowing you must be nuts if you thought this occured by chance. You actually have to have more faith to believe it happened by chance (and you still haven't explain the cause) than to believe in God. The cosmological constant, crucial to the development of the universe, must be inexplicably fine-tuned to an accuracy of one part in 10^53 in order for a life-permitting universe to exist. If you can't trust your own logic, then any argument that you make is meaningless. How do you know you even exist?

In the beginning of an "evolution" scenario, the odds that ten to twenty amino acids coming together by chance (remember, no natural selection or chemical evolution at this stage) to form an enzyme has been estimated to be on the order of 10^20. There are two thousand different enzymes made out of amino acids, all of which would have to be formed purely by chance, and the odds of that happening are around 10^40000, ods so outrageously small that they could not be faced even if the whole universe consisted of organic soup.

Darwin himself said that if the transitional forms of organisms were not ever found, then his theory could not hold. Thus far, those transitional forms have not been found, only distinctly different fossils of organisms which died off. Barrow and Tipler list ten steps in the course of human evolution - the development of aerobic respiration, the development of an inner skeleton, the development of the eye, for example - each of which is so improbable that before it would occur, the sun would have ceased to be a main sequence and incinerated the earth!

Questions: Why aren't there any people walking around with a third arm sticking out of the top of their head? Isn't evolution random? Also, shouldn't we be seeing organisms that have died off millions of years ago coming back around? Where are the dinosaurs, why haven't they "re-evolved"?

Use your common sense Hamsterbrain: If the guy across from you in the poker game gets 4 Aces 12 times in a row, are you going to play another hand because he says "Well, it had to happen somewhere in our finite universe, might as well be here!"

19

How can the WTS be short of money ?

by the max in

so the society have a hedge fund, some(50%) shares in a usa company who specsialise in weapons delivery systems , has a shares portfolio that includes cigerettes.it buys up real estate in one of the worlds most lucerative locations ny,uses free labour to refurbish these properties along with its tax free status and then sells them on at a profit.it further extends it real estate portfolio by lending money at intrest ,for the building of more kh, again built with free labour and tax breaks, which are never owned by the cong,s who built them, but belong wts.

i am not an economist,though i would be hard pressed to come up with a better economic model than this, also it purports to be politically nuetral, so hopes to operate globally without restrictions, infact the (workers) have to pay the society ,by way of mag sales and donations, in order to give their free labour, no trade union protection or minimum wage.

g--gle, p--si,ya-oo, micro---t, would kill to have these advantages in the market place..

witnessdater

What is the company they have shares in that specializes in weapons delivery systems? Not criticizing you, I would love to see something showing this. How can they go on for so long not being exposed? Why are not more news organizations on their trail, especially with most of the reporters skeptical about Christianity, or outright hostile to it. This may be the time that Bill Maher actually did something worthwhile.

41

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 04-10-2011 WT Study (CREATION)

by blondie in

jw
friends

the physical heavens, the earth, and everything.

heavens themselves were made, and by the.

creative days three through six, god created.

witnessdater

When I dated a JW, I naively tried to show her the error of her ways. The last thing I wanted was for her to believe in nothing, because of the "where else can you go mentality". That is the worst thing about this cult. It worships the true God, but so distorts the gospel for the WT benefit. Then, if they lose faith in that, it is a slippery slope to not believing in anything.

That is what I am seeing on this thread in particular. Vastly incorrect statements. Science does not point to evolution. The ONLy mutations ever known were not of the nature of building a new part, but have all been destructive mutations. There is not one example of a mutation that improved something. Study the law of irreducible complexity. For an organism to have no eyes, and therefore see no light, the organism doesn't "want" light, it doesn't know what light is. What was the "factor" or cause that thought "I think it is time to form an eye for myself".

The Big Bang: Atheists hate this theory, because it wipes out their theory that everything was just always here and that our time had no beginning. Immediately before the big bang, there was absolutely nothing. That is supernatural, and of intelligence.

The likelihood that we are here by chance, and came from primordial slime are incalulable. If the gravititational constant were off by something like one-tenth of one percent, the universe would collapse. This is akin to sticking your hand into a coontainer holding 10 to the 40th power black balls, and pulling out the only white one among the bunch. You would begin to think the game had been rigged.

Get and Read the book "Who Made God" by Ravi Zacharias and Norman Geisler.

57

My daughter asked me this today.

by thenoblelodge in

she asked me why god didn't step in to stop tragedies.

for example, recently twin baby girls were attacked in their cots while their parents were down stairs.

both suffered life changing injuries.. my daughter knows a couple who have waited years for a baby and eventually had i.v.f.

witnessdater

One way of answering your question is to first state your question another way: Why does there have to be evil? In essence, this is the question you pose. If you only draw the line at children, why? Aren't innocents of all ages having terrible tragedies inflicted upon them through no apparent fault of their own?

But if there were no evil, there would be no good, and no differentiation between anything being good or bad. We would be moral-less animals who could not recognize the difference. It almost becomes a pointless question. We have to have free will, and God cannot stop all evil from happening. Not because He isn't able, but because I think He wants us to love Him for the right reason, which is pure love thru faith. As opposed to fear (which is why a lot of JWs "love" Him). I used to ask myself the question "Why can't God show up in the sky everywhere at all times, all over the earth, to show us who He is, and to warn us to behave? We could videotape it and everything" The answer is that if He did that, it would be a form of coercion, or making him obey Him out of fear, instead of love and the recognition that He knows what is best for us. And believe me, even if that happened, there would still be those in the world denying it was true, just as they deny that many of the things in the Bible happened. I do not want my children to obey me out of fear, I want them to obey me out of love and learn that if they do not do what I say, sometimes they hurt themselves or have an adverse outcome for themselves. Then they say "Well, Dad was right, maybe he is pretty smart. I should have done it his way, and I will next time." We learn from pain, and sometimes "evil" causes pain.

Check out children with CIPA, who cannot feel pain, cannot cry and cannot sweat. There are about 100 at any given time in the world and have an average lifespan of 25 years. Their parents' sole prayer is that one day their child will feel pain.

The evil that brutally kills innocent people like you described comes out of Godless thinking in my view. This is not to say that some "Christians" of the past haven't done brutal things to people, except to say they weren't really Christians. Never examine a group from the bad that comes from it. Except for atheists. "Bad" and "evil" are what naturally come from a worldview where there is no moral law-giver higher than ourselves. See Stalin and Hitler. They have a view that anything goes, because there is no God. Then they make their arguments from a moral point of view, borrowing from where the morals originally came, while at the same time trying to disprove it.

5

The was a time I thought I had a good argument for people who had faith in God's non-existence

by gubberningbody in

jw
friends

i remember asking people the question.... .

"would you like to believe there's a creator who cares about you?".

this question would avoid any fact-based discussion, and instead we could discuss the heart of the matter that plays the key to how people connect the disparate dots.. .

witnessdater

And if logical thought should not be the basis of thougth for all of this, what should? Are some of you saying that life is meaningless?

5

The was a time I thought I had a good argument for people who had faith in God's non-existence

by gubberningbody in

jw
friends

i remember asking people the question.... .

"would you like to believe there's a creator who cares about you?".

this question would avoid any fact-based discussion, and instead we could discuss the heart of the matter that plays the key to how people connect the disparate dots.. .

witnessdater

Like my JW ex-girlfriend used to say (as a diversion from the real debate) "I have the right to believe and worship in any way I want." I'd laugh, "Of course you do hun, I never said you didn't. We are not having a debate about constitutional law here, I'm asking you if it makes sense that the self-professed channel of God's word to all earthlings has been wrong - thereby indicating that God lied to them."

In the same light - what makes senses about God/no God? You can believe anything you like, sure it is your choice. But what makes logical sense? The atheist's argument is that the universe was simply always here and was not created. That implies infinite time backwards, time had no starting point. But if that were true, we could have never arrived at this point in time, time itself would be sucked into the negative. The Big Bang Theory was a huge setback for atheists, they do not like to talk about it. Because it says that at the beginning of time there was a singularity of all matter and force, and at the instant before that, there was literally nothing, not even time. Since the natural laws we have say that something cannot be created from nothing, this implies intelligent and supernatural creation by an uncreated being - God.

The real faith comes in where we are asked to believe that the Bible revealed that creator. But it isn't too difficult when you consider the number of prophecies from the OT becoming fulfilled in the NT. I also know of no other "religion" where their leader even claimed to be God.

On the "How can God deal out so much pain" argument, I don't think he does. I think we do. Another way of looking at this is to read about children with a disease called CIPA, who can not feel any physical pain, and therefore cannot learn from that pain. Their parents' sole prayer is that one day their children will be able to feel pain.

Thoughts?

7

Ex girlfriend a JW

by witnessdater in

jw
friends

i dated a jw for nearly three years.

i had known her through business for a long time, and didn't really know that much about what jws believed, or anything really about the cult-like characteristics the organization has.

we dated before i was divorced, while i was separated heading toward divorce for about a year.

witnessdater

I dated a JW for nearly three years. I had known her through business for a long time, and didn't really know that much about what JWs believed, or anything really about the cult-like characteristics the organization has. We dated before I was divorced, while I was separated heading toward divorce for about a year. She wasn't a regular at meetings, went every now and again. I went to two conventions and a few services with her. I told her that the way they presented things "just didn't seem right" or in keeping with the evangelistic style I had grown up with . I told her it sounded as if they were speaking to five year olds.

She was a beautiful woman physically, and many years my senior. I thought I was living in a dream when she told me how much she loved me. She never had kids, and I always wondered why. She had been married for about 5 years in her thirties, husband walked out on her with some other woman. After a couple years of our relationship, she started exhibiting what I call "split-personality" tendencies. We had talked of getting married, had such love for each other that I couldn't believe I had been so lucky to have found this kind of love. Then, out of the blue, in a serious and monotone voice, she would have serious "worries" about our age difference (which wasn't that great - she couldn't have been my mother) , or the fact that I have kids, and that one day she wouldn't be able to keep up with me or I would tire of her (turned out she got what she originally wanted out of me, then tired of me). She would have fits of outrage and scream that she didn't want to go on with me anymore. A few things had happened that she blamed this (her loss of feeling for me) on, but I believe it was her fanatic JW sister and mother who changed her mind about me. I do not believe that any man will put up with the crap her family has going on within it, or that she will ever know true love for anyone. She was on anti-depressants, and there is no telling how much else I really didn't know about her mental state. What a shame. Anyone here from Birmingham, AL? Did anyone go to the Birmingham convention?