Carl Sagan's remark brings up a related instance. In 1978 evolutionary zoologist Richard Lewontin wrote a Scientific American article "Adaptation" ( https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwju752x5vHYAhVC-mMKHbJhBG0QFggpMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdynamics.org%2F~altenber%2FLIBRARY%2FREPRINTS%2FLewontin_Adaptation.1978.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2ZNdeinrKEjSk8hpWf9RcZ ). On the first page he wrote:
<< The manifest fit between organisms and their environment is a major outcome of evolution. . .
The theory about the history of life that is now generally accepted, the Darwinian theory of evolution by natural selection, is meant to explain two different aspects of the appearance of the living world: diversity and fitness. . . By the time Darwin published On the Origin of Species in 1859 it was widely (if not universally) held that species had evolved from one another, but no plausible mechanism for such evolution had been proposed. Darwin's solution to the problem was that small heritable variations among individuals within a species become the basis of large differences between species. . .
Life forms are more than simply multiple and diverse, however. Organisms fit remarkably well into the external world in which they live. They have morphologies, physiologies and behaviors that appear to have been carefully and artfully designed to enable each organism to appropriate the world around it for its own life.
It was the marvelous fit of organisms to the environment, much more than the great diversity of forms, that was the chief evidence of a Supreme Designer. Darwin realized that if a naturalistic theory of evolution was to be successful, it would have to explain the apparent perfection of organisms and not simply their variation. . .
These "organs of extreme perfection" were only the most extreme case of a more general phenomenon: adaptation. Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection was meant to solve both the problem of the origin of diversity and the problem of the origin of adaptation at one stroke. Perfect organs were a difficulty of the theory not in that natural selection could not account for them but rather in that they were its most rigorous test, since on the face of it they seemed the best intuitive demonstration that a divine artificer was at work. >>
A couple of years later the young-earth creationist author Gary Parker wrote an article in a creationist publication where he referenced Lewontin's Scientific American article:
<< As Harvard's Richard Lewontin recently summarized it, organisms ". . . appear to have been carefully and artfully designed." He calls the "perfection of organisms" both a challenge to Darwinism and, on a more positive note, "the chief evidence of a Supreme Designer." >>
My question is: Did Parker fairly quote Lewontin, or did he quote-mine Lewontin?
Please explain your answer.
jukief
JoinedPosts by jukief
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131
Do Jehovah's Witnesses Accept Evolution?
by jukief inby evolution or by creation?
by evolution or by creation?
"the bible is a myth" and "evolution is true".
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jukief
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131
Do Jehovah's Witnesses Accept Evolution?
by jukief inby evolution or by creation?
by evolution or by creation?
"the bible is a myth" and "evolution is true".
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jukief
Most people immediately got the point of my post: it's easy to turn the tables on the Watch Tower's practice of misquoting and misrepresenting people.
The best response was from Earnest, whether that was satirical or sincere:
"What a blatant misrepresentation of the truth. The quotes are accurate but incomplete and completely out of context, not what the writers were trying to convey. However, it is convincing to those too lazy or disinterested to check the source material."
Then Earnest provided the context for each quote, proving his point that the original post misrepresented the writers' views.
I particularly liked cognisonance's citation from Carl Sagan: "The fossil evidence could be consistent with the idea of a Great Designer", cited with the implication that such a view is a startling and significant revelation from a very popular atheist. The problem with such a citation is that by far the majority of god-believers accept that view, which is often called theistic evolution. That way they get to believe in their favorite gods and claim to accept science - the best of both worlds. So citing that view as if it were a startling revelation is merely catering to the grossly ignorant. -
131
Do Jehovah's Witnesses Accept Evolution?
by jukief inby evolution or by creation?
by evolution or by creation?
"the bible is a myth" and "evolution is true".
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jukief
Do Jehovah's Witnesses Accept Evolution?
Some people claim that JWs reject the Theory of Evolution in favor of the Bible's creation account in Genesis.
But is that really true?
Note these frank admissions in Watch Tower publications:
"Scientists have proved evolution to be true." -- Answers to 10 Questions Young People Ask (2016) p. 27
"Evolution is a fact." -- Answers to 10 Questions Young People Ask Work, Volume 2 (2016) p. 27; W13 10/15 p. 11; “Bearing Thorough Witness” About God’s Kingdom (2009) p. 141; G 9/06 p. 22; W04 10/1 p. 10; g90 1/22 pp. 8-10; g87 7/22 p. 10; Life - How Did It Get Here? By Evolution or by Creation? (1985) pp. 26, 180, 181; G74 9/22 p. 26
"Evolution is as much a fact as the heat of the sun." -- G 9/06 p. 13; Was Life Created? (2010) p. 18
"Evolution is as much a fact as the existence of gravity." -- Life - How Did It Get Here? By Evolution or by Creation? (1985) p. 181
"Evolution is a fact; God is a myth." G90 1/22 p.11
"Evolution is a fact. It no longer needs to be proved. No competent scientist doubts it. All educated people believe it. Only the ignorant reject it." G87 1/22 p. 10
"There’s no question that evolution is a fact. We see examples of it every day. No responsible person questions it. It’s as much a fact as gravity and atoms!" -- G74 9/22 p. 17
"The Bible is a myth" and "evolution is true". -- W75 7/15 p. 443; W71 1/15 p. 48; G70 4/22 p. 3
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"The theory of evolution is true". -- The Origin of Life—Five Questions Worth Asking (2010) p. 9
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85
My letter to Bethel about the flood
by Cornbread ini've decided to go full public with a new username on this forum.
it's been almost a decade since i've been out and i don't care at this point who knows.
that being said, here's a letter that i'm mailing to bethel.
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jukief
Cornbread,
Your plight is similar to what my husband experienced beginning more than 40 years ago. While in college, he tried to write an essay defending the reality of Noah's flood, but when he researched the Society's references in its various publications, he found mostly a series of arguments grossly ignorant of science, and even outright misrepresentations of the references. He eventually did much more research, including on ice cores, coming to the same conclusions you did. You can find the results of his research here: http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/part-1-general-description-of-flood.html
Don't expect an answer from the Society. They're not into admitting the truth.
Juliann
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Does threatening to sue the individual elders really work?
by alfredjones100 indoes threatening to sue the individual elders for deformation of character really work in preventing being disfellowshiped?.
any actual experiences?.
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jukief
It worked for my husband. They never disfellowshipped him, and they were sure getting ready to.
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Brooklyn Bethel in the 1940 census
by dissonance_resolved inprompted by another post, i looked up 124 columbia heights in the 1940 census.
a few interesting things: all occupants are listed as having the profession of "sell- religious books," except rutherford who is listed as an "editor.
" odd that they aren't listed as ministers.. also, all the educational levels of the occupants were provided- many had not even graduated high school and some not even grammar school.
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jukief
My hubby's dad was at Bethel then. I never would have thought to look at the census. Thanks for mentioning this!
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Ros
by Gorbatchov intoday i read at the xjw.com forum that ros died.. since the start of my internet connexion in 1997 i remember the topics of ros.. ros, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
you helped me getting ttatt.
i pray for you and your relatives.. gorbatchov.
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jukief
She was a lovely person. I'm very, very sad to hear this news.
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Getting rid of HUGE JW library
by jukief inmy husband, alanf, started collecting jw literature about 20 years ago when he began his indepth research into the religion.
his collection includes just about everything the society has ever published, from books and magazines down to booklets, pamphlets, and handbills.
some pieces are quite rare.
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jukief
Alan said a collector recently told him about three extremely rare early JW books that sold on eBay for around $40,000. And it was someone at Bethel who bought them. Crazy, huh?
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Getting rid of HUGE JW library
by jukief inmy husband, alanf, started collecting jw literature about 20 years ago when he began his indepth research into the religion.
his collection includes just about everything the society has ever published, from books and magazines down to booklets, pamphlets, and handbills.
some pieces are quite rare.
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jukief
I finally figured out how the PMs work. It's been a long time since I visited the site, and I never was active on it. D'oh.
Some of these items are indeed very valuable. But the market has really fallen flat since Alan was buying up things. Still, maybe someone will want some of the more rare items. We do have a lot of handbills, early books and booklets, programs, and things like that. Even an old pin from the Bible Student days. It's a pretty amazing collection to look at. The only other person I know who has something similar is Richard Rawe. I know that we're going to have to sell things on eBay, but there are SO MANY of them that even thinking about it is exhausting. It will be a lot of work. So maybe using an eBay seller isn't such a bad idea. I think I'm going to have to spend a few days going through everything and making an inventory. Probably take pictures of the rare items, too, for eBay. Yikes.
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Getting rid of HUGE JW library
by jukief inmy husband, alanf, started collecting jw literature about 20 years ago when he began his indepth research into the religion.
his collection includes just about everything the society has ever published, from books and magazines down to booklets, pamphlets, and handbills.
some pieces are quite rare.
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jukief
For some reason, the forum won't let me read my PMs. Will you email me if you need more information?
jukef at comcast dot net