Posts by Julie

25

Weight

by gilwarrior in

well today i went to my trainer and i weighed myself.

i weigh a disgusting 258 pounds!

i new record for me.

I agree with the advice given here to also see a Dr. My dearest friend here in my town has a weight problem but much of it has to do with the thyroid problem she suffers from. It seems they often have to adjust her medication.

Also, I am no expert at weight loss or anything, I am a small person but don't take any steps to remain so, however, I only eat when I am hungry. I stop eating when I no longer feel hungry. Listen to your body, not your mind on such things, you'll hear the messages loud and clear.

Oh and BTW, the forcing yourself to throw stuff up will turn your teeth brown/black so don't try it, you'll regret it. Besides, it is really bad for you in other ways too.

Please see a doctor for help, you can safely do this. You can always come to this DB for encouragement. And don't be too hard on yourself either, this discouragement will only prevent you from reaching your goal.

I wish you much success,
Julie

46

Hi There Julie!

by IslandWoman in

jw
friends

i repeat, you have not lived as a jw.

you have not raised your child as one, you have not had to sign a virtual death warrant for your child by refusing blood!!

you have not had to die as many of us have had to die.. you have not walked as we have walked!!!.

Julie

Well Good Morning there Island Woman!!

Glad to see you caught my post to you. Interesting you should go for the Amazing MO of start your own New thread. Easier to dismiss all that was said in the old one if we start a new one though isn't it?

Well as I am sure you at least read the thread (a safe assumption seeing this one from you here is proof enough) and perhaps you were able to notice that indeed I did concede to Amazing (I think) that no, in fact I didn't get sucked into the cult and didn't spend a lot of my time schlepping mags etc. Point conceded.

What you fail to address is the real reason I brought out the whole matter to begin with. I was participating (though barely at the point you addressed me) in a heated debacle regarding Amazing and his behavior. This is the sort of behavior that is universal dear, and I recognized it and called him on it. Having been or not been a JW had nothing to do with recognizing certain behaviors. In fact, perhaps I am better able to recognize it since my mind isn't all clogged up with that JW-personality nonsense. I think, basically, in the post that I included in my thread to you you basically inferred ignorance on my part and your tone told me, basically, since I haven't *actually* been "there" I had no business participating. That is what I took from your words, that is why I called you on them.

Like I said though, disregard the original and it's soooooo much easier not to address the points, isn't it? That's another thing I missed by not being a JW. All these wonderful methods of duck and dodge. Well I suppose I could learn it in Washington just as well.

Either way, nope, never been a JW and everyday I read horror stories that make me realize how fortunate I am! But know this, many of your JW experiences are shared by people throughout the world so you have no and/or very few exclusive claims on your sufferings/experiences. Sorry.

Thanks to all who brought a little bit of reson to this thread GDW, you make fine points about the matter. Like this:

>MY point is that Julie has been told, in so many words, to "shut-up, be quiet, you don't know what you are talking about", etc" when she has expressed an opinion that was not accepted by a "born in, raised in, an adult in", JW. A sort of "coup de gras" in order to end a debate. I have been here, on this board, for six months, and I have seen it several times.

Oh yes dear, you are so right. That was the whole reason I took issue with IW's post. She was offering me a glass of shutthehellup while inferring I had no right to speak on these matters anyway. We've seen it before, we'll see it again.

Julie, who will take Seeker's fine advice and leave this as my only offering

P.S. Except to say to Larc, You must be joking. I have no reason to have dialog with you and would prefer you stopped pretending to understand anything about me, thanks.

36

Hi there Island Woman

by Julie in

jw
friends

greetings island woman,.

i see you had some words for me at the time i took a short sabbatical from this board.

thought i'd address a few of your thoughts.. :ignorance comes in many forms.

Julie

Well Ginny then I guess you and I spent countless hours (at what cost we know!) at the pointless excercise of arguing ad hominems.

As to my assumptions re: e-mails, that was intended to be more tongue in cheek but I'd wager Amazing was quite the victim there with you as he was here publicly. I mean if you don't have the personal fortitude to argue your case publicly I hardly doubt you'd waste it on one on one.

Unless perhaps I am mistaken and he presented you with some unassailable logic in those mails. Just like the amount of licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop, the world may never know (or likely care IMO).

Regards,
Julie

36

Hi there Island Woman

by Julie in

jw
friends

greetings island woman,.

i see you had some words for me at the time i took a short sabbatical from this board.

thought i'd address a few of your thoughts.. :ignorance comes in many forms.

Julie

:So, it is time to move on from this ... we are really getting no where.

Finally we are agreed on something Amazing. I made my comments and backed them up repeatedly. You had your chance to refute them or provide other explanations, you chose to pass then. Why should I re-post it all? If you want to think that my refusing to waste my time reposting all that is "It is obvious that you love to make claims but are unwilling to even make one substantive point." then I guess you and I will never understand each other.

I backed up everything/allegation made regarding that debacle, you have backed up none of yours but I "love to make claims" and am "unwilling to even make one substantive point". Smacks of scapegoating, finger-pointing and hypocrisy to me, you and I could never have aproductive discussion whileyou employ such tactics. It is a wonder you can with anyone by using such rules as those.

Julie, who will no longer be bothered with Amazing (who has proven to be far from that)

36

Hi there Island Woman

by Julie in

jw
friends

greetings island woman,.

i see you had some words for me at the time i took a short sabbatical from this board.

thought i'd address a few of your thoughts.. :ignorance comes in many forms.

Julie

Hi (again) Amazing,

Gee how I wish to be done with this thread and exchange with you. Please stop calling for, no, demanding, proof that you have an offensive tone at times and can come off as condescending etc. You yourself have admitted often (especially during the debacle) that you have this problem and are working to correct it. Now you demand proof, knock it off.

I value you too as a fellow human being Amazing. I do not care enough to go through all of your posts to come up with proof that sometimes you come off (at least the *old* Amazing) as one pompous, chauvanistic fellow. Frankly, once I formed that opinion I avoided most of your posts so as not to be offended or feel irritated by your tone (as unintentional as it may be). Funny the up-dates I'd get via e-mail from friends though, often using the term "*gag*", male and female alike FYI.

I made comments regarding your behavior. I was called on those comments. I then presented your words that made me think the way I did. If that is not enough then I guess I will never be able to do enough.

It is so funny to see such high standards of proof demanded from you for things like tone and attitude that I alleged. You made all out accusations and then never substantiated them. While Ginny was valiantly, single-handedly trying to fight your fight she lamely offered that maybe you felt on the defense and offered that poor excuse for your unsubstantiated allegations but that was all even she could come up with.

I have never alleged you of horrible wrong doing and all that I did infer/accuse you of was demonstrated (my reasoning for view) using your own words. I merely offered the material I based my opinion on. I noticed that you *then* showed no interest in substantiating your own allegations or calling me on mine (of course Ginny did take a whack at it and I tried to answer her thoroughly).

Sorry Amazing, I value you as a fellow human but I sure as hell cannot stomach going through bundles of your own posts looking for phrases that indicate self-righteousness, chauvanism, narcissism or any other thing. It doesn't matter enough to me. That would take some time and frankly, I skipped so many (i.e. Jusice Series) as I knew it wouldn't be, shall we say, along the lines of my tastes. This would mean reading much of what I managed to avoid in the first place, no thanks. Besides, the last debacle wwas telling enough. If presenting your words in complete sentences isn't "broken down" enough for you then I am sorry to not have done my work on a level you could better comprehend. I have done all I will do on the matter.

:I do not believe that you have no business commenting.

Island Woman gave this impression and that is why I take issue with *her* here.

:I do think that your comments and views might take on a significantly different flavor had you been a JW for a long period of time. I believe that you would take my words differently.

I am sure I would either love them or find them more offensive. Not sure, we'll never know. I do know I'd have made a horrible JW.

:Until you and I got into this recent set of exchanges, I most often enjoyed your posts, even where I disagreed.

That's funny to hear from you Amazing. After our first disagreeement my thoughts were dismissed by you as shallow and stupid (to that effect too lazy to look up quotes but remember quite clearly) and I made efforts to make positive comments on posts of yours that I found rather touching and painfully honest re: your religious beliefs changing. I am hard pressed to recall any sort of reply from you much less a positive acknowledgement....perhaps I am mistaken. To me (just my mortal perspective) it has seemed you were offended by me once and never to be forgiven/forgotten.

Thought that had changed by your kind words the other day, perhaps I am once again mistaken.

Regards,
Julie

36

Hi there Island Woman

by Julie in

jw
friends

greetings island woman,.

i see you had some words for me at the time i took a short sabbatical from this board.

thought i'd address a few of your thoughts.. :ignorance comes in many forms.

Julie

Hi Amazing,

You said:

:So, your understanding of JWs is going to be greater than someone who has had little experience with them. Again, unless you gave up 20, 30 or more years of your life as a full fledged JW, you will always lack some level of understanding. Why can't you accept this concept? Why do you feel that you have to know everything and defend everything? Why can't you accept that you understanding of JWs is limited, just as a man has to accept that his understanding of giving birth is limited? It is no shame, is it?

Absolutely not. I have no problems with realizing that I cannot fully comprehend what it was like to waste 20-30 yrs. in a cult but, I would like to fully point out the fact that Island Woman insinuated I am ignorant of the WT world and life in it. She basically alleged I haven't been there so I have no business commenting. This is the inferrence I take issue with. BTW, thanks for the concession there too.

As do dishing it out and not being able to take it, lol, oh Amazing, I can see how it may seem that way but you are quite wrong. I went through and painstakingly explained my comments when called on them. Stood by them had no issue with being called on them. If you want to think me arrogant for forming opinions based on observation and experience, along with having the audacity to actually speak (write) those opinions, that is your thing.

As to overestimating myself in thinking you even wanted a *chance* much less a second chance to prove you are not all the negative things some came to believe, I have to admit all your talk of hoping to adjust your communications so that others wouldn't take offense lead me to deduce you cared about how others viewed your thoughts. This further lead me to think you would like to be held in high regard for them, not something I think poorly of BTW so it's not meant as a criticism.

I thought that after all this blew over that maybe things could be different, we could all continue growing, some of us with unintentenionally offensive modes of communication could continue working and growing. You made it very clear more than once (and have conceded--concession noted) that this was a goal of yours.

I coupled this with your kind words the other day and how I viewed some of your religious growth/exploration posts and thought that maybe you should have a second chance in the mind of those with closed minds regarding you. That's it, no high-self-opinion or anything, just a plain ol' person thinking perhaps another person wasn't what she had once thought him to be.....

Now let's not go dragging out the martyrdom/inflammatory comments like Holy War and such, no need for theatrics. We'll agree to disagree and perhaps one day we will find something to agree on.

Until then Amazing....

Skeptic, you are a kind, supportive and biased-as-hell friend. I thank you for your kind words nonetheless--hope all is well with you.

Sir Step....I just love you, you dog. Now take of that cape before you get hurt.

Regards to all,
Julie

36

Hi there Island Woman

by Julie in

jw
friends

greetings island woman,.

i see you had some words for me at the time i took a short sabbatical from this board.

thought i'd address a few of your thoughts.. :ignorance comes in many forms.

Julie

Hi Amazing,

There are a few sticking points in your latest diatribe that I'd like to address before I leave for an important child-related appointment.

:In some of the "Assertiveness" training I have been through in recent years, I have been aware of the importance of setting a limit so that healthy assertiveness does not turn into arrogance and egotism. When the emotions get involved, this is a tough challenge to meet.

Well then Amazing, I should think you would be able to recognize such behavior in one talking to you and, if all your training was worth anything, you'd have some sort of method to diffuse it, not inflame it as you did.

:The reasons I made the point to Julie about your "objectivity" is that during our discussions I saw your fairness, balance, and ability to see both sides.

Well yeah, considering you were no doubt sending tear-jerking e-mails to your one last ray of hope, yeah, real objective input from your lifegaurd there Amazing, sorry but the jig is up on that one dude. I have had to put her in the same "objective" category as your ex-wife and your daughter.

>Looking back on the thread about the 9/11 events, your comments really expressed the same leve of objectivity, and your views match my own sentiments. But somehow, my emotions were running the show, and I could not seem to step back to a more fair position.

I see, so now looking back you can understand how *you* could possibly get emotional about something with personal meaning to you but in others (especially if directed toward you) is INEXCUSABLE, untterly barbaric.

:Likewise, I see your same sense of fairness above in your points to Julie. I don't like coming across as egotistical, dogmatic or present other negative attributes. Few people like to come across negatively. The reason I can accept your observations and honesty is that you have the ability to help me see where I can improve without making me feel like shit.

Well since you have such a nice personal relationship I am sure that helped with your rapport on the board. Um, do you still think you are fooling anyone here? Yeah, Ginny is a brilliant woman with a balanced view but the myth of her objectivity in this debacle of yours is obliterated.

And you seem to infer I make you feel like shit with my own criticisms of you. I think you need to get your money back for all that high-faluttin' assertiveness training Amazing if a little Irish girl whose assertiveness training comes from staying alive in a household of Irish brothers reduces you to a pile of dung unable to defend himself. If you cannot take any kind of criticism and gleen anything of value and throw the rest away (no, not take it as a personal earth shattering matter) it was a short course, the kind not really worth bragging about.

:I wanted Julie to see this in you so that maybe she too could step back away from her own dogamatism, or at least what comes across to me as judgmentalism and arrogance, and see that maybe the reason she and I clashed is that it became more of a battle of two egos rather than a fair debate.

I have already dismissed this ego-clash nonsense of yours. I feel no need to have posters look up to me, I have no need to feel admired. I merely pointed out your behavior and did exhaustive explanations for my own comments. You have yet to disprove any of my comments, in fact with the way you carried on you strengthened my arguments about you with every post.

Oh but wait, doesn't a man used to power and control usually send a woman to do his dirty work for him? How lucky you were to have found such an intelligent and respectable one to do your work for you, and you really had her convinced she was making some effort toward greater good too (not doing you a great service), boy, hats off to ya dude. Well done!!!

I started to wonder about you Amazing, thinking I had perhaps misjudged you and that you really did mean all you said about wanting to just help folks and not be offensive. I am sure it was a bit difficult for you to make your kind remarks to me the other day. I now believe they were to make you look gracious to all and were empty, just like your claims to want to grow and improve as a human (like we all should do).

How about you stay the hell away from me and I will show you the same courtesy? Apparently our opinions of each other will never change, even though I have tried.

Julie

36

Hi there Island Woman

by Julie in

jw
friends

greetings island woman,.

i see you had some words for me at the time i took a short sabbatical from this board.

thought i'd address a few of your thoughts.. :ignorance comes in many forms.

Julie

I commend your efforts at honesty here Ginny and in the whole debacle. I too have tried to strive for honesty in all of my observations and comments.

I had to be honest about how questionable I found your "objectivity" to be once I learned you were in friendly communication with Amazing. Sorry but I'd like to think that would be a red flag to anyone.

I've no gripe with you but I can't help but have a sneaking suspicion that Amazing was more than willing to exploit the kind tendencies you showed him. Sorry if this offends anyone it is my *honest* opinion. That is what is behind that whole ROFL comment that got things going some threads back.

Anyhow, really I'd like to hear from Island Woman, she made the comments, let her answer for them. I know I sure as hell don't want anyone speaking for me or answering for my words, perhaps she has similar standards.....

Regards,
Julie

36

Hi there Island Woman

by Julie in

jw
friends

greetings island woman,.

i see you had some words for me at the time i took a short sabbatical from this board.

thought i'd address a few of your thoughts.. :ignorance comes in many forms.

Julie

Greetings to all,

Ginny, you have my private response.

Amazing,

I don't want to play the long exchange game with you. I wasn't saying you are the only person who needs growth but I seem to recall someone (you) recently calming to have grown and a wish to continue to do so etc. I was basically agreeing with you on what you have claimed to be goals for yourself.

I don't consider myself to be better than anyone else and I didn't clash egos with you anywhere along the way. I thought your actions after Amnesian's initial rebuttal post were poor, said so and explained why. Where does my ego come into play here? By commenting on a discussion board? By pointing out your lackluster response when called out in serious fashion?

As to the second chance thing that *so* offended you Amazing, yes a second chance. It got to the point where my opinion of you sunk very low. When I found out that you and Ginny were e-mailing while she was writing "objective" things in your defense I couldn't help but doubt the degree of "objectivity" we are talking here.

It became apparent that there were many here who had apparently been long harboring some feelings of ill will toward you anyway, unless you have some other logical explanation for the outpouring of intense response to Amnesian's post.

*I* was making the statement that I wanted to put my old opinion of you aside and was urging others (who may have needed a little urging) to do the same. Was hoping that indeed all your lofty talk of growth and consideration of the thoughts of others was sincere. What a chump I was, as is made clear here by your reply to me.

As to my issues I take up with Island Woman, you show you know little of what you speak of Amazing, mankind and it's behaviors are basically unchanged for millenia, have a look at some history, you'll see. Besides, I thought you weren't out to hijack this thread.....Yes, you were an elder and obviously have a unique, insightful perspective of the patriarchal sort of organization (as you have clearly demonstrated time and again)...big deal....do you think you were in the only situation where a man was considered or acted superior??? Does Island Woman think JWs are the only people to know oppression and the life of being constantly hood-winked?

I have known psychological abuse equal to that of a control group and have known physical abuse as a child. Was raised in the RCC (ever see a woman priest?) and came to realize that which I held so dear (my religious beliefs) was nothing but myth. Sound familiar?

Yeah, it sounds like practically every other story on this forum, only difference is I didn't waste half my life schlepping mags for the corp. Perhaps my twenty years in retail and foot injuries to show for it can gain me some equal footing there.....

Now why don't you go and answer some of the many questions that *were* directed to YOU Amazing if you have so much time on your hands, instead of wasting time proving that those who had figured you to be a pompous windbag to be right, (again)?

Julie

36

Hi there Island Woman

by Julie in

jw
friends

greetings island woman,.

i see you had some words for me at the time i took a short sabbatical from this board.

thought i'd address a few of your thoughts.. :ignorance comes in many forms.

Julie

Hi Ginny,

:I thought objectivity was all about letting the evidence speak for itself. You presented one side; I presented the other. People can decide for themselves what they want to believe about Amazing's character now.

By all means, yes Ginny, it was one good reason for waiting to address this with Island Woman. The storm has passed over ont his whole Amazing thing. I do want everyone to form their own opinion and regarding Amazing, since he has claimed to want to really learn and grow in his communication with others should likely be given a second chance by some who may have been put off by him before.

I am sorry if I give the impression that *that* was what I wanted to bring into the light here, though mentioned, I was more concerned with pointing out the universal esperiences/feelings that are common to all and exclsuive to none. Pointing at the part regarding you was merely included to take a guess at why Island Woman must have said what she did to me.

:If you feel I have been a hypocrite, please call me out on it directly and publicly, Julie. I have nothing to hide.

I do not know really Ginny if you have been a hypocrite, perhaps a shade or two *hypocritical* let's say. Maybe I am wrong, let's see...

:Even while I was defending Amazing,

Oops! Wait a minute here now! I thought you were merely tryingto present an *objective* point of view. Was this an objective defense then? That was my view, that you were putting up a defense for him while claiming to be striving for objectivity. I think, could be wrong her, that "objective-defense" might be an oxy-moron here.

:he knew that I also had the impression that he was egotistical and dogmatic, especially after my exchange with him shortly after the terrorist attacks in September.

I think we all knew that. On the serious side of it though, it makes one wonder how you could suddenly have this passionate compulsion to defend, no, view objectively, the situation of this man, who you earlier believed to be "egotistical" and "dogmatic". It gets a little confusing keeping up.

:I also know that my impressions can be wrong, based as they are on limited information from a discussion board. I can see the other side, too, as I thought was demonstrated in the "Farewell to All" thread.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=18663&site=3&page=4

Yes, I will take your word for it, didn't re-read thread, vaguely remember it. I am sure you are fully capable of admitting mistakes or misjudgments Ginny, I have long admired your writing, remember? It isn't because of dishonest, slimey operating.

:Most human beings I know have mixed and often conflicted motivations. Yes, I thought Amazing was egotistical. I also thought he was trying his best to do what he thought was right.

I thought he was trying his best to come out looking as good as possible but that was just my take as has been explained countless times before, forgive me for not providing links etc.

Regarding Amazing, I truly believes he took the criticisms he got to heart. I would wager he would sincerely like to be the best person he can be and it is his posts on his religious view changing/realizations that lead me to believe this. We can all grow and change, that is one of the beautiful things about being human.

My bottom line regarding you Ginny on this matter was I don't believe you were being as objective as you claimed and/or thought. You *were* defending Amazing but claiming otherwise, IMO. It surprised me to see you do that.

But as my post to Island Woman states, no behavior is really exclusive to one people, and that includes doing things that surprise me, even those who haven't before (and that I don't expect to) can.

Warm regards,
Julie