@yesidid:
Well djeggnog what you wrote may not have made a lot of sense, but it probably took a while, so you will have a bit of time to count.
I didn't write what you read for your benefit, but for the benefit of those that were interested in the OP's question and in reading definitive responses to it.
@slimboyfat wrote:
But am I correct in thinking they have only actually mentioned the new "overlapping generations" teaching once or twice in the literature?
@djeggnog wrote:
What "overlapping generations" do you mean? To my knowledge, there has been no such teaching by Jehovah's Witnesses.
@slimboyfat wrote:
Mention it once or twice, don't dwell on it, hope everyone just accepts it, and don't bring it up again. Is that the strategy?
@djeggnog wrote:
I know of no such strategy. What you are saying would seem to be rather speculatory.
@slimboyfat wrote:
Oh the irony.
What do you find ironic about there being no strategic methodology in play for Jehovah's Witnesses to neither mention nor bring up the subject of "overlapping generations" when this idea exists only in your own mind?
@Alfred:
djegnogg... aren't you afraid of being destroyed in [Armageddon] for continuously ignoring the Society's directives regarding participation on apostate forums?
So if apostates join JWN this in your opinion makes JWN an apostate forum? As to whether the Society has prerogatives that give to it the right to override the consciences of Jehovah's Witnesses to smoke, to engage in military service, to accept blood transfusions, to engage in in vitro fertilization procedures, to post messages to any website, I'll leave it to you to judge, but my reading of the Bible suggests that no human being has authority over the conscience of another human being, especially with regard to the Christian freedom enjoyed by Christians, for why would anyone permit their own freedom in Christ to be judged by another person's conscience? (1 Corinthians 10:29)
I hope you are praying to Jehovah for forgiveness... ... it doesn't look good for you right now...
Why would Jehovah listen to your prayers on my behalf, when he'll never hear them (or have you perhaps forgotten that all prayers to him must be directed to him through the Lord Jesus Christ to whom you do not look for your salvation)? Rather, you should consider praying for yourself (through Christ) that the opportunity will be afforded you to repent before it is too late for you to do so.
@djeggnog wrote:
What "overlapping generations" do you mean? To my knowledge, there has been no such teaching by Jehovah's Witnesses.
@Black Sheep wrote:
That is correct djeggnog.
It's a teaching of the Watchtower, not of Jehovah's Witnesses.
How do you split this hair so as to separate the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, a publishing corporation staffed by Jehovah's Witnesses that produces Bibles and Bible-related literature used by Jehovah's Witnesses from the rest of Jehovah's Witnesses? Contrary to what you evidently believe, Jehovah's Witnesses do not teach anything regarding "overlapping generations," and we never have taught such.
All of the JWs I have brought it up with have declined to discuss it except for two old time JWs who agreed that I was correct not to believe it.
And this means what? That those Jehovah's Witnesses were taught something about "overlapping generations" whereas the rest of Jehovah's Witnesses, like myself, were not? If someone doesn't understand the interpretation provided back in 2010 regarding the meaning of the expression, "this generation," as was used by Jesus at Matthew 24:34, I wouldn't expect that person to try to explain it to others until he or she did understand and felt competent to explain this interpretation to others.
Many Jehovah's Witnesses cannot explain scripturally how it is we teach that the Gentile times that began in 607 BC ended in 1914 AD, they do not know how to explain the "seven times" (Daniel 4:25), nor do they appreciate the significance of Jesus' mention of these "appointed times" (NWT) or "times of the Gentiles" (KJV) at Luke 21:24 either, so I also wouldn't expect these Witnesses to explain how we interpret the scriptures that relate to these "times" until they were competent to do so either.
It really doesn't matter what "old timers" among Jehovah's Witnesses might have believed for several decades and might continue to believe today according to what may have been our previous understanding of the scriptures. What matters is what Jehovah's Witnesses believe today.
What I'm telling you here is not unlike what Jesus told the Samaritan woman (John 4:5-26), who tried to acquit herself as a religious person that also worshiped Jehovah the same as the Jews, she worshipped what she did not know, for salvation originated with the Jews. What this woman knew about Jehovah as a Samaritan, whose knowledge of God had been limited to the Torah, was incomplete, and many Jehovah's Witnesses today -- these "old timers" of whom you speak -- are just like this Samaritan woman in their not 'paying more than the usual attention to the things heard,' and so their knowledge of Jehovah is really incomplete, and for this reason they are steadily 'drifting away.' (Hebrews 2:1)
@designs:
Black sheep- That's interesting about the old timers, reminds me of 1995.
What's so "interesting" about what @Black Sheep" said in his post? Being totally clueless, I suspect there is much that @Black Sheep doesn't know or understand about the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses.
@sir82 w rote:
I recall using the "there can't be much time left for the generation of 1914" meme in field service in the 80's pretty frequently. It was typically one of the first things you brought out to a "progressive" return visit or bible study. "Better hurry up & get on the ark, the youngest of that generation is already in their 70's!"
@djeggnog wrote:
Jehovah's Witnesses no longer make reference to a "generation of 1914," since in 2010, the 1914 generation interpretation was discarded. Jehovah's Witnesses now understand Matthew 24:34 to refer to the generation of the sign that began in 1914.
@Alfred wrote:
wtf? did you fall asleep during that assembly part? did you even read the garbage that was put in the Watchtower with nothing more than Exo1:6 as biblical basis?
In my previous post to this thread, I suggested that one read Post 553, which appears on this page, to read an explanation of something you (obviously!) didn't comprehend while you were listening intently to the part entitled, "Remain 'in the Secret Place of the Most High,'" given at the "Remain Close to Jehovah!" District Convention back in 2010. Here is an excerpt from the transcript of this talk to which you refer, but for clarification I've added the words that appear in red type:
You see, recent clarification of Matthew chapter 24, and verse 34, underscores that we are living deep in the time of the end. In fact, let’s turn there please, Matthew chapter 24, and let us read together and carefully examine Jesus’ words. Matthew 24:34 of course we know this chapter, Jesus is giving us detailed information about the last days and what to expect, but then this key point is made in verse 34: "Truly I say to you, that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur." Now here's a question? What is a generation? What is that referring to? A generation consists of contemporaries, individuals who live at the same time. Now for example, in the Bible, in Exodus chapter 1 and verse 6, it refers to Joseph, that very faithful man, and all his brothers, as "all of that generation." Ten of Joseph’s brothers witnessed events before Joseph was even born. And at least two of his brothers lived on after Joseph had died. So although their ages varied, these contemporaries were viewed as being a part of one generation, namely, Joseph's.
Now correspondingly, the generation that is referred to here in Matthew 24:34 comprises of two groups of anointed Christians. You see, the first group was on hand in the year 1914, when the generation of the sign of Jesus Christ’s presence first began to be observed. Now the second group, made up of those who were later anointed, are for a time contemporaries of the older group who were on hand during the generation of the sign. So Jesus’ words at Matthew 24:34 indicate that some in the second group will witness the beginning of the great tribulation, hence the length of the generation is limited. Are you with me? Let's illustrate it this way. Brother F. W. Franz, we’re all familiar with Brother Franz, he was born in the year 1893. He was baptized in 1913. And thus, he was alive to discern the sign in 1914. Now Brother Franz lived a long life. Yes, he lived way on until 1992, almost 100 years! Many present-day anointed ones were contemporaries of Brother Franz. And they are part of the generation of the sign that Jesus said would not pass away until all these things occur.
It is patently obvious to me that you don't understand that many of the things that Jehovah's Witnesses teach are based on the Bible interpreting itself, so the fact that you don't appreciate the reference to Exodus 1:6 that was used in the Watchtower article dated April 15, 2010, entitled "Holy Spirit's Role in the Outworking of Jehovah's Purpose," is quite telling.
Nevertheless, in defining the word "generation," the Watchtower dated May 15, 1984, makes reference to The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology and A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament from Walter Bauer's Fifth Edition, 1958:
The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology
"Those born at the same time.... Associated with this is the meaning: the body of one’s contemporaries, an age."
A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament from Walter Bauer’s Fifth Edition, 1958
"The sum total of those born at the same time, expanded to include all those living at a given time generation, contemporaries." (Page 5)
Also, the Watchtower dated September 1, 1952, stated the following with reference to the word "generation" as used at Matthew 24:34: "Three or even four generations may be living at the same time, their lives overlapping...." (Pp. 542, 543)
Consequently, Exodus 1:6 provides the "biblical basis" for how Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the meaning of the word "generation" used at Matthew 24:34.
@slimboyfat:
But unlike the old generation teaching or the 1975 fiasco, it is not as if the overlapping generations teaching ....
What you're not getting here is that there is no "overlapping generations teaching." Jehovah's Witnesses do not teach and have never taught anything pertaining to "overlapping generations."
It's the pure absurdity of the new teaching that makes them embarrassed to repeat it in print.
No, that's not why such a teaching doesn't appear in print. This "overlapping generations" about which you are going on here isn't something that Jehovah's Witnesses teach or have ever taught. Jesus never spoke about "overlapping generations," but his mention of "this generation" referred to merely one generation, and that "generation" we now understand based on Exodus 1:6 to refer to the generation of the composite sign of Christ's presence which began in 1914.
@djeggnog wrote:
What "overlapping generations" do you mean? To my knowledge, there has been no such teaching by Jehovah's Witnesses.
@00DAD wrote:
Well DJ is technically correct of course. But like most times when he is "right" he completely misses the point....
And what point is that?
The SOCIETY does not refer to this New Light as "Overlapping Generations" because, according to their obfuscated "reasoning" and willingness to capriciously change the meaning of the word "generation, it is only ONE GENERATION made up of TWO GROUPS WHOSE LIVES OVERLAP.
I don't discern a change having been made as to the meaning of the word "generation." You are the one here referring to "overlapping generations" as if this expression has some relevance to anything that Jehovah's Witnesses teach or have ever taught when the fact is that we have never taught a thing about any "overlapping generations," which is my point. A generation comprised of two groups whose lives overlap with one another, yes, but not two 'overlapping generations.'
Never mind the fact that there is a potential 99+ year age difference between the oldest person in the FIRST GROUP and the youngest in the SECOND GROUP.* They are "evidently" only one generation!
The point you make here though is eclipsed by the fact that of the 16 visions recorded in the Bible book of Revelation, all but six of them remain to undergo fulfillment -- just six visions are left! The 11th vision has already undergone partial fulfillment with the abyssing of "the scarlet-colored wild beast" as the League of Nations in 1939 and its ascending out of that abyss as the United Nations in 1945. What is yet to occur is the scarlet-colored wild beast's turning on what this harlot, Babylon the Great, represents, namely, religion, for this vision states that this beast will hate, devastate and completely destroy this woman.
It is then that is the fulfillment of the 12th vision with respect to the "great tribulation" to which Jesus refers at Matthew 24:21 comes into view, which event is followed by the execution of God's judgment upon the world by Jesus Christ and his angels to which Jesus refers at Matthew 24:30-34, when the sign of the Son of man appears in heaven and the "chosen ones" are gathered during "this generation" of the sign following which will be Jesus' separating of the sheep from the goats to which Jesus refers at Matthew 25:31-33.
What, you ask, is the EVIDENCE that proves that Jesus "evidently" meant what this WT says he meant? Good question! The answer is: No one knows because none was given.
I would say that you could not have read the article, "Holy Spirit's Role in the Outworking of Jehovah's Purpose," that appears in the Watchtower dated April 15, 2010, for had you done so, you would have come to realize the significance of Exodus 1:6 which was the evidence on which our interpretation of the word "generation" used at Matthew 24:34 is based. Either this or you just didn't understand what you were reading.
I would posit that it is "evidently" because Armageddon has not come. This unfortunate development left the WTBTS with only a few options. They could either admit:
They were wrong about 1914
That they have absolutely no idea what Jesus meant
Reinterpret the meaning of the word "generation"
They obviously chose Option #3.
As I stated in another post, interpreting the Bible isn't an exact science, and for this reason, we must discern what the Scriptures mean based on what other Scriptures say or according to how certain related expressions are used in the Bible. Just as the Bible points out at 1 Peter 1:10, 11, the prophets of old made a "diligent inquiry" and "careful search" of the Scriptures and "kept on investigating" as to what particular season or what sort of season] the spirit in them spoke concerning Christ, and just as occurred among God's people during the first century during the days of the apostles, so the same investigation has taken place among God's people today.
Russell and Rutherford passed away leaving Jehovah's Witnesses with an understanding of what Jesus meant by "this generation" at Matthew 24:34 that was different than what Jehovah's Witnesses believed under Knorr. In their day, Jehovah's Witnesses believed Jesus was referring to the lifetime of people when he referred to "this generation." Today, we now know this to have been a mistaken viewpoint.
Since we now realize that Jesus had employed a bit of hyperbole at Matthew 24:34, we are now of the belief that Jesus' reference to "this generation" referred to the sign of his invisible presence during which his anointed brothers lived contemporaneous to the composite generation of the sign. We cannot be dogmatic about this matter, but we are now of the belief that those of Jesus' brothers that were living when the generation of the sign began in the year 1914 as well as those of his brothers that are alive when the generation of the sign ends at which Armageddon begins is what Jesus meant when he said that "this generation" would not pass away before all of the things that Jesus indicated would occur in his prophesy about the conclusion of this system of things had taken place.
Now, since we're so clear on who make up the members of this single "Overlapping Generation," only one question remains:
Who are the Underlappers of this Generation?
I don't see this as a legitimate question to explore, but feel free to explore it with someone else that sees this question of yours as being relevant.
@djeggnog
