did jesus get circumcised or not?
quote from mark(thats me) "i believe woman was the .
last and greatest creation" of course i have my own.
To the original question, ... two points
1.) The Bible does not declare man/woman to be a perfect creation.
2.) God commanded only the Hebrews to be circumcised as a distinguishing characteristic of the fact that they were His people. Sort of like having a ring through the belly button or wearing a jewel in the forehead.
heres a bizarre story....tell me what you think!.
court shouldn't regulate one's right to have sex .
by kathleen parker .
This subject was brought up when I objected to someone's assertion that it took $20,000/yr to raise a child.
Bigboi,
Noone said that it takes $20,000 a year to raise a child. One poster said that that was about the amount she received in child support, and went on to illustrate how that money was, indeed, spent on her child.
The other statistical information you mention is probably included in the latest census information, which you can access through the link ...
http://forever.freeshell.org/csus.htm#CSpartial
... which has links to the broader census information.
Hope this helps.
heres a bizarre story....tell me what you think!.
court shouldn't regulate one's right to have sex .
by kathleen parker .
To bring some factual information to this discussion, lets look at the compiled data for the lastest year (1995) the census bureau has compiled data regarding child support in the U.S.
This information can be obtained at ...
http://forever.freeshell.org/csus.htm#CSpartial
... along with links to the actual Census Bureau reports.
Okay, ... in 1995 ...
... there were 13.7 million custodial parents in the U.S.
... (where custodial parent is defined as parents living with
... children under the age of 21, where the other parent is
... absent from that home.)
... 11.6 million of these custodial parents were moms
... 2.1 million of these custodial parents were dads
... 7.0 million of these custodial parents were due to receive
... child support payments from the non-custodial parent
... 2.7 million of these custodial parents received full
... payment of child support due from the NCP
... 2.1 million of these custodial parents received partial
... payment of child support due from the NCP
... 2.2 million of these custodial parents received no payment
... of child support due from the NCP
... total child support payment in 1995 was $17.8 billion or
... (63%) of the $28.3 billion due for 1995
... the average amount of child support received for custodial
... parents due child support from the NCP was $3,732.00 for
... the year 1995
... the average amount of child support received for custodial
... parents due child support from the NCP was $310.00 per month for
... the year 1995
... Note that the above is the average child support received per
... custodial household REGARDLESS of the number of children being
... supported
... The average number of children per custodial household is 1.664
... (or, approximately 1 and 1/2)
So, ... let's dispense with all this talk of custodial parents who are making out like a bandit because they receive child support payments. According to the data cited, the average amount of child support received per child (in 1995) was $2,480.00 or $206.66 per month. If we assume that the outlay per parent should be about equal, then the amount available to the custodial parent for expenses generated by raising one child would be about $5,000.00 yearly or $415.00 per month. Coupling this information with the information gleaned by LDS yesterday (and using the lowest figures in the charts), it is easy to see that, rather than having a surplus of funding with which to raise and support their children living with them, custodial parents, on average, have a deficit of funding for raising their children on the average of about $1,075.00 per year per child.
(Note, again, that the above figures do not include the cost of financing a college education)
So, what happens to all this money that's paid in child support? Surprise, ... it pays for the support of the child ... ALL OF IT. And, guess what, ... THERE'S STILL NOT ENOUGH. Now, I have no doubt, that sometimes, a CP will take part of what comes in as child support and spend it on something that's not related to the child. But, guess what, ... the CP is already in the hole on child support because Junior needed new glasses last month, or Colby's bed is about to fall apart.
So, ... where then is all this money for 'lifestyle upgrades'?
Who, in the majority of cases, do you think, supplements the funding available for raising their children, so that their children don't have to go without?
JustSomeFacts
heres a bizarre story....tell me what you think!.
court shouldn't regulate one's right to have sex .
by kathleen parker .
When you made the comment that children are burdens, that sounds so harsh. A child isn't a burden, they are blessings.
Not to critique, only to clarify, ... my statement was ...
There is an inherent biological disproportion in the burden of bearing a child.
... and I meant the term in the same way that Webster first defines it ...
... something carried, a load.
I do view children as blessings, ... but am realistic enough to understand that if I have one (or more), I'm going to be doing some carrying (most times, happily, I concede) for a good while.
JustAThought
heres a bizarre story....tell me what you think!.
court shouldn't regulate one's right to have sex .
by kathleen parker .
I'm sure that a 12 year old doesn't eat $400 a month in food, come on.
Okay, after looking at the stats LDH gave the links to yesterday and rethinking this through, maybe $400.00 a month is a bit much for food for a 12 year old. Of course, it depends on what 12 year old we're talking about. I've seen 12 year olds who look like they're about 6 (the Gary Coleman types, though usually thinner), and I've seen some 12 year olds who could be mistaken for Ice Cube. And I'm thinking that $400.00 a month is only about $13.00 a day, and when you factor in school lunch and snacks .... I don't know? Most definitely, I'm sure I'm heavily influenced by the fact that I'm raising young men in their late teens, who request literally frightening orders at the drive-thru window. Oh well, ... we're just praying for the day when they're payin' for it themselves. But, all in all it was ...
JustAThought
heres a bizarre story....tell me what you think!.
court shouldn't regulate one's right to have sex .
by kathleen parker .
Also, what does the ability to pay mean?
I've seen NCD's ask this question of the judge who is inquiring as to their lack of child support. For someone who would ask this question, it means, quite simply, that you have assets and/or income which will probably have to be garnisheed by around 17%.
heres a bizarre story....tell me what you think!.
court shouldn't regulate one's right to have sex .
by kathleen parker .
I don't believe that it takes 900 dollars a month to raise a child. One child cannot tie up that amount of resources on a regular basis.
And you base this on ...? I gave you figures. I am in the process of raising children.
Just think for a moment, instead of emotionally venting.
How much resource do YOU tie up on a regular basis? What expenses do you have which would be significantly lower if you were a child?
The system is biased, plain and simple.
You're right. The system is biased. The custodial parent usually ends up doing their part AND whatever part the NCP isn't willing to do.
heres a bizarre story....tell me what you think!.
court shouldn't regulate one's right to have sex .
by kathleen parker .
I think that there are some facts about child support which have not been given an adequate airing in this thread.
There is an inherent biological disproportion in the burden of bearing a child. It is much easier for a man to walk away from his responsibility for a child conceived than a woman. He merely has to become inaccessible to that woman. At the very least, a woman will have to finance, obtain, and endure an abortion. Perhaps this biological imbalance has much to do with the fact that she has more say in whether she will bear the child than does the father.
The vast majority of child support issues have to do with formerly married couples who have produced once mutually desired children. In these cases, the issue becomes one of insuring that the children are supported by BOTH parents, custodial and non-custodial. In most of these cases, it is not a matter of the NCP's inability to pay, but, rather, the NCP's unwillingness to pay. For issues of child support, the court does not much concern itself with NCP's who cannot pay, but with NCP's who can pay, but choose not to.
The amount of child support to be paid is usually determined on the NCP's ability to pay, and is, as such, figured on a percentage of the NCP's income. If we were to use the national average of 17%, an NCP earning $150,000.00 should be paying $25,500.00 per year in child support for one child. For NCP's who earn less, say the national income average of $25,000 per year, the child support amount for one child would be only about $4,250.00 per year, or $354.00 per month.
A listing of reasonable child support expense, say, for a 12 year old child, might look like this ...
Expense Amount/
month
Food 400.00
Clothing 100.00
Housing 100.00
Utility Cost 100.00
School Expense 50.00
Medical/Dental 50.00
Health Insurance 100.00
If you were to total just these costs, you've already got a monthly tab of $900.00.
Even with just these very basic expenses, the real cost of supporting one child is over twice what the average NCP is able to pay. The idea of custodial parents receiving a surplus of child support money from an NCP is, except for a very few select cases, just a myth. The reality is that custodial parents almost always contribute MORE, financially and otherwise, to the support of their children.
And, finally, as to the article which spawned this thread, it wasn't the women in the story who are portrayed as victims, it is the tax-paying public. Any person who has contributed to producing (9) children who they're not supporting is a huge drain of the working tax-paying public.
JustAThought
i responded to your comments on another post, but i feel this issue is just too important and deserves its own thread.. -----------------------------------------------------.
: even the most righteous believer of god would tend to quote abraham: is the judge of all the earth not going to do what is right?
(gen 18:25).
Another take on the original issues addressed ...
Suppose, ... there is a standard to which God aspires and, subsequently, desires that His sentient creation (men and angels, and others, for all we know) aspire. It could be theorized that this standard is very closely tied to the goal of creating and perpetuating life in this universe.
In creating sentient beings, or, those with the ability to choose between the good (creative, sustainive activity) and the evil (destructive activity), it could be conjectured that God is in the midst of a process of raising up those who will (in some sense) partner with Him to sustain life in the universe. It could be further conjectured that there is a level of personal development (maturation) which is necessary for us to come to the point where can effectively partner with God to do this work.
Going on, it is reasonable to assume that God, in a way very analogous to parents having the responsibility of maturing their childen, has before Him the task of maturing us to the point where we can effectively partner with Him. Personal maturation is achieved in a number of ways, including life experience, challenge, modeling, facing moral dilemna,etc. The example presented here where, God, the Father, apparently receives moral direction from Abraham, the child of the Father, could be understood as an opportunity for God to present Abraham with just such a moral dilemna and allow him (Abraham) to work it through to what God, the Father, had in mind to do anyway.
If we observed the analogous situation of a mother presenting her toddler offspring wih the statement ... "Let's go play in the street," to which her toddler offspring replys with something like ... "But, Mommy ... you said playing in the street is dangerous," we would, as mature adults, many of us parents in our own right, assume, not that the mother is unsure about whether she and her child should play in the street, but, rather that she is allowing her child to exercise his own maturity in rejecting that course of action.
JustAThought
i responded to your comments on another post, but i feel this issue is just too important and deserves its own thread.. -----------------------------------------------------.
: even the most righteous believer of god would tend to quote abraham: is the judge of all the earth not going to do what is right?
(gen 18:25).
In that case, with the resurrection hope and all, shall we have you killed right now?
An answer is ... No, for you don't have the necessary authority.
JustAThought
