Bizarre news story

by BoozeRunner 118 Replies latest jw friends

  • BoozeRunner
    BoozeRunner

    Heres a bizarre story....tell me what you think!
    ---------------------------------------------
    Court shouldn't regulate one's right to have sex
    By KATHLEEN PARKER
    Published in the Courier News on July 16, 2001
    "Pay up or zip up" is the message from the Wisconsin Supreme Court, which recently upheld an order that prohibits a "deadbeat" dad from having any more children while he's on probation. The ruling, which split 4-3 along gender lines (the gals voted against it), sounds sensible on the surface -- If you can't support your kids, don't have any. Most responsible people follow that rule voluntarily.
    But given that it's impossible to enforce -- how do you stop a man from having sex, Mrs. Condit wants to know --- it's a bad idea, fundamentally unfair and probably unconstitutional. Do we really want the state deciding who can have children and under what conditions?
    Don't get me wrong. The dad in question, David Oakley, is as good a candidate for a date with Lorena Bobbitt as anyone I can imagine. He has nine children by four women and owes $25,000 in child support.
    But surely there's a better way to help this guy practice birth control. Legal precedents have a funny way of trickling down in ways we sometimes don't foresee. As Justice Ann Walsh Bradley pointed out in the dissent:
    "The majority has essentially authorized a judicially imposed `credit check´ on the right to bear and beget children."
    Do we really want the state to require a financial statement before we're allowed to have children?
    A century ago, if credit had been a condition of procreation in this country, most of us wouldn't be here. My own paternal grandmother was the youngest of 13 children in an Irish-Catholic family that couldn't afford to feed its last child. She was turned over to the charitable care of a convent at age 4. (Warning: Don't try this at home.)
    Arguably, the state might have stepped in at some point and insisted that my great-grandfather stop impregnating his poor wife. My great-grandmother might have viewed this as divine intervention, but we know better. The state has no business making procreative decisions, even for the least of us. Besides, think what you would have missed!
    As an issue of simple fairness, imagine the male point of view. As men see it, women may have babies or not; seek and get an abortion, with or without the father's permission; move so far away with their offspring that fathers have no access to their children; demand child support; garnish a man's wages, and get him thrown into prison for failure to pay regardless of his circumstances.
    Men, on the other hand -- well, you see the difference. This court ruling is just one more message that men are no-count predators while women are hapless victims. Women choose; men lose.
    Imagine the outrage if the court had ruled that one of Oakley's four paramours could have no more children until she was employed or married. No court is that stupid. Besides, what punishment would they impose were "Ms. Oakley" to become pregnant? Forced abortion? Sterilization? Prison?
    Oakley faces eight years in prison if he accidentally misplaces any of his genetic material, though the order expires at the end of his five-year probation. In the meantime, the male justices reasoned, putting him in jail for failure to pay child support would further punish his children, ages 4 to 16.
    Few would disagree with that logic. Too many fathers are languishing behind bars for not paying child support, not always out of choice but because of hard times. Better that they should be working and making some effort toward their children's support than wasting state money on room and board.
    If the state really wants this guy to quit making babies, it might order him to spend time with his darling offspring. That works at my house.
    --------------------------------------------- This can be found @ c-n.com

    Boozy

  • larc
    larc

    Boozy,

    Most men who have 9 children by four different women are irresponsible. Most men who do not pay child support are irresponsible. Most irresponsible men ordered by the court to visit their children, won't do it. They will spend their time at the bar drinking up their money.

  • silver252525
    silver252525

    Would you not agree that even though, 'some of us' are pshycially mature...we are sometimes the COMPLET opposite in our mental capacity???

    Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that you have be well off to have childern... suitations have showed otherwise.

    Some people don't have a limit, they just don't know when and how to control themselves---and some who can control themselves just like being the way they are. Every action have a reaction and this affects not one but several persons either for better or worst.

    The more I think about this case...you have to be a little sick to be making childern all over the place, with little or no concern for the results or conditions being made by this imature action.

    That is why laws are in place-really what sense would it make if the court allowed him to continue with his actions. That shows a total lack of responsibility; he is not being responsible for his actions.:(

    I will leave this saying you make your bed you lie in it-we can't run from our actions; they are right there facing us.

  • Lindy
    Lindy

    Hi Boozy,
    Yeah, I heard this on the new the other day. In order to have sex he has to have the courts "permission", what ever that involves.
    But I don't think this is entirely ludicrous.

    You said:
    "Imagine the outrage if the court had ruled that one of Oakley's four paramours could have no more children until she was employed or married. No court is that stupid. Besides, what punishment would they impose were "Ms. Oakley" to become pregnant? Forced abortion? Sterilization? Prison?"

    I was a foster parent for a few years and I know for a fact that they do "regulate" the women after a number of births, and they don't wait until NINE children pop out! There have been forced sterilizations and "forced" abortions. I suppose if the women would ignore the court orders they could also go to prison.
    But this example is ONE man with NINE children who is not taking care of any of them. Most the women with children with multiple fathers only have a few children. And each man she has gotten pregnant by is the father to way less than nine children.
    Along those same lines, if the women have to many children and neglect them or abuse them, then they are taken away from them. Guess what? Tax payers pick up the support of these children too, while the fathers just go off and led their own lives with no responsibility. What a deal for them!
    Where are the fathers that produce these kids? Where are the fathers of these children who don't care if their little ones are fed and clothed? Who knows? But they aren't there to help these women raise these kids so the pressure isn't so much so that the women have enough food on the table and help with disciplining and raising these kids. So these women and children for the most part, live in government housing, that the taxpayer pays for, and keep having more children by men different then the previous child's father.
    None of these men feels responsible enough to make sure his child is taken care of and not neglected or abused and put in foster care, just as long as they don't have to bother with any of it, and it keeps going on. Believe me, it is a rare father indeed, that shows up to object when he child is place in foster care! I never saw it one time.
    So I would think that if the women have to end up having their children taken away and are forced into sterilization after several kids, more power to them, that the authorities are finally stopping the men from making babies that they are not supporting. Personally, after NINE children this man should have been forced into sterilization like so many women are. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
    On the other side of the coin, both partners have the responsibility of birth control. Did this man with nine children ever hear of condoms? Was he responsible enough to make sure that his girlfriend was taking her contraceptive pill every day? I guess from what I have seen, these men just go around from "flower to flower" "pollinating" and have no regards to what happens to the "seeds of their loins". But how this came about is another social issue and I could go on about that, but I won't.
    Just wanted you to know that there is really the other side of the coin here. I figured you don't know. Now that you do, maybe you might not see this situation with this fellow with NINE unsupported children in a different light? I think that they did this because he was having so many children and maybe it was time to set an example. I doubt that this will become the norm. Too bad though, both sexes should be held responsible in these areas and then there won't be a dire need for foster care and adoption and so many children won't grow up in need, negected and abused. Who has more rights? The men and women reproducing irresponsibly, or the innocent children going unsupported, emotionally and financially? And why should all the taxpayers be putting out money for these persons irresponsibility’s?
    One more thing. In the days gone by as you discussed, when parents had many children, there were reasons for large families. They were needed to work the farm. Some died off due to illness and accidents. In the inner cities, they helped with the businesses. And the big thing, BOTH parents were there. Both concieved the children, both raised the children, both disciplined the children. They were very proud of their families and supported them both emotionally and economically. Each parent worked their butts off to make sure the children got what they needed. That included the parents doing without for the childrens sake.This certainly isn't true today. Parents went without food and clothing so that their children had it. Poppa just didn't donate sperm and go on his merry way, leaving behind a trail of needy children, leaving the mother to deal with it as best as they could.
    There was no welfare of foster care to pick up that responsibility either. They did what they did because children were important. So they had the RIGHT to procreate as many children as they wanted. Do you think that is so today? Sometimes rights are taken away because people do not deserve them.
    Food for thought?

    Lindy

  • waiting
    waiting

    Howdy,

    But surely there's a better way to help this guy practice birth control. Legal precedents have a funny way of trickling down in ways we sometimes don't foresee.

    Sterilization? No? Then what better way to ensure this man, with 9 kids he doesn't presently support, doesn't indulge his sexual laziness to an even 12 kids he doesn't support?

    Why is the male/female gender argument brought into this? He doesn't pay support for the many children he has already fathered. He shouldn't be allowed to father anymore. The argument that *only* females should be responsible for getting rid of unwanted childen is irresponsible. There are two people at the union and two people should literally pay for the upbringing of each child.

    If the father has proven by 9 children he will not take care of his children - then he should not be allowed to father even more. And this man has proven his irresponsibility.

    I heard this report on the news - and I'm in full agreement. What's the big deal about practicing birth control? If he doesn't have the ability to put on a condom before spawning another state-supported child, then perhaps a couple of years in prison will help him remember.

    Perhaps a slogan "Wear a condom or pay child support or go to jail. The choice is yours."

    waiting

  • Lindy
    Lindy

    Amen Waiting,
    As you can see by my post, I agree fully with you!

    Lindy

  • BoozeRunner
    BoozeRunner

    TY ALL for the responses.
    Lindy, actually I do know the other side of the coin.:-)
    BTW What I posted is the article in its entirety, so all the opinions in the original post were those of the writer.
    I just wanted to hear what others thought about it.
    Waiting, I dont believe the writer was saying that ONLY women should be responsible for getting rid of unwanted children, but rather that ONLY women have such a choice.
    I certainly agree that this guy should be stopped from having children. I would thnk that if there were a non-surgical option for sterilization for men, the court would have employed such. As you may know, some states have used NORPLANT(I believe) contraceptive implants on women who are on PUBLIC ASSISTANCE to stop them from having more children while still burdening the system.
    Sevral years ago, here in NJ our governor put a stop to awarding women MORE welfare $$ if they had kids while in the program. That was the most sensible thing I'd heard in a long time. Women here were outraged. Amazingly, her decision was taken to the US SUPREME court by none other than the National Org. for Women. As if allowing women to continue popping out babies on taxpayer $$ was just ducky.
    I personally think the court did the correct thing, insofar as there is no other way to prevent render this guys "seeds" inoperative.

    Boozy

  • reagan_oconnor
    reagan_oconnor

    My old roommate and I discussed at length what we referred to as "vasectomy research." We suggested that medical facilities receive private funding to set up centers to perform vasectomies on men. The men would receive $500 a piece for submitting to the procedure... all in the name of "research," of course. We talked about setting up similar clinics to perform tubal ligations for women, but men are able to recover from vasectomies much faster than women do from tubals.

    I actually saw a new story several months ago (20/20 perhaps) that profiled a woman who had started a women's clinic performing tubals in California (I think) for mothers who've given birth to numerous state-supported drug-addicted children.

    'some of us' are pshycially mature...we are sometimes the COMPLET opposite in our mental capacity???

    Sure... even Fred Hall has a penis.


    Reagan

    I am the master of my fate/I am the captain of my soul.

  • kenyata
    kenyata

    The courts ruling is that he stops making kids if he can't afford them. Thats the key word,"if". He can afford them he just choses not to. I'm sure that the 4 mothers involved knew that before their kid or kids came, that there were others before. There's to much birth control out there to be an ooopppsss!!! If you put him in jail, he won't be able to pay, our tax dollars will be taking care of him. The courts should've ordered him to find a job with in a certain amount of time and then whatever he's making, see what each parent gets and he has enough to pay his bills with. Jail isn't the answer. Yes it is a crime to not take care of your kids, its called abandonement. If you make them, you should take care of them, on your own, not forced. If the guy or the female don't want to use any bc, don't have sex. We know that people are going to have sex anyways and say, we'll deal with it when it happens. Bull. To all the deadbeat moms and dads in jail because you didn't pay a certain amount of money, the courts should order you to get a job and pay what you owe. Now, the courts ordering him not to have any more kids is just like ordering a female to or not to have an abortion. Whats the difference, its dealing with one's reproductive organs and their right to reproduce? Do you get where I'm going with this? Females fought like crazy for the
    ROEvsWADE so that they could be in control of their own bodies, and kill their babies when they felt like it. They didn't and still don't need the alleged father's permission or signiture to kill their kid so if ROEvsWADE is there for females, what's going to be there for the guys. Is there going to be a ROEvsWADE 11 or is it going to be
    WADEvsROE, the other way around?

  • claudia
    claudia

    This man shouldnt be allowed to breed, he is an ass hole. 9 children are enough for tax payers to support, he should be locked up and on a work release program.

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