Justin

Joined

• started 50 topics
• posted 385 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Justin

• 
  10

  Newbie needs help

  by Kaytam in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have been depressed, drinking and just got myself in a mess.

  i know i can pull out of it, but feel that spirituality is important to me.

  i don't believe the witnesses are the answer and will just add to my problems.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Justin

  Perhaps it would be easier if you first attended a larger church where you could maintain your anonymity, and also avoid as much as possible actually participating in the service. You may feel you need to be part of a community, but it may be easier to keep the community at arm's length until you get over your fears.
• 
  11

  CATHOLIC TO JW..........POPE TO GB..............WHY ??????

  by vitty in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  why do so many catholics become jws ?

  i know a lot of them were not very strong or practicing catholics but the wt does seem to draw them, especially when they are so critical of them and the pope.

  you would think it would put them off.. is it because the are so different or the same???????????.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Justin

  The Catholic Church claims to have the magisterium or teaching authority to dispense the truth to Christ's flock. When one first begins to study with JWs, one is lead to think that the Bible alone is being appealed to for truth. In other words, one is accepting the Protestant idea of sola scriptura. It is only later that one realizes that one magisterium has been substituted for another. So I don't think Catholics realize the similarity between the two systems until they are well on their way.
• 
  23

  TITHING approaches!

  by hamsterbait in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the sep 1 witchtower, p25.

  there is an illustration (i assume of an anonymous israelite) vowing "i shall without fail give the tenth of 'it' to you" , at the point in the study where we are told that ornary folks gathered outside the temple when incense was being offered up.

  (he has already given the tenth of something - "it's" running down the end of that phallic looking thingie.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Justin

  I believe that the quotation in the picture is from Genesis 28:22, so that the person is Jacob praying with the stone he used for a pillow - naming the location Bethel.
• 
  3

  The Descent

  by daniel-p in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  well i just went and saw the movie the descent, finally showing in us movie theatres, albiet with a changed ending.

  when i got back home i found the original ending online somewhere and actually i prefer the changed us one.

  anyway, this movie is awesome!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Justin

  So what's the original ending? I bet one of the creatures hid in the back seat of the SUV.
• 
  32

  We are a Return Visit for the Mormans

  by Bonnie_Clyde in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  thought i sent this an hour ago, but apparently it didn't go.

  for about a year morman elders called on us off and on.

  finally clyde called it off.. but recently a new set of elders started coming.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Justin

  The tenets of Mormonism were supposedly revealed to the prophet Joseph Smith over a period of years. The Book of Mormon, though it has been recognized as the classic text (Smith having found the plates in the Hill Cumorrah in New York), was only the first of these revelations and is, for the most part, quite orthodox. (It is the supposed history in the book which in questionable, including a visit by Jesus Christ to the Americas.) The full revelation developed over the years, and the final doctrinal structure was expressed by Smith in a funeral talk given for King Follett (a disciple) shortly before Smith's own death at the hands of a mob.

  Smith claimed that God was once a mortal man, and is now an exalted man. That all people who have ever lived were originally spirits with God, and our present incarnation in flesh is to enable us to become Gods ourselves. Such deification is offered to those who marry in a Mormon temple ceremony and have children, thus perpetuating the incarnational and deification processes. Such beliefs led to the practice of polygamy (now discontinued), and the current emphasis on family life. Early Mormons were looking for the coming of God's kingdom, and this was to be fulfilled by following the directions from Smith's revelations. This necessitated the setting up of a theocratic state, and resulted in repeated persecutions during Smith's lifetime until, after his death, "the Saints" (as they were called) were forced under the leadership of Brigham Young to settle in the (then) isolated area which has since become the State of Utah where the theocratic experiment could proceed. When Western expansion in the USA lead to Utah's absorption into the Union, and Federal law resulted in a crackdown on polygamy, the Mormons could no longer be geographically isolated. This, in turn, meant that they had to isolate themselves spiritually by strict observances imposed by the leadership - and in this way were similar to JWs. Yet, the Mormons relate to the larger culture in a way which JWs do not.

  So . . . read the Book of Mormon. Though you'll find it quite boring, and it is intimidating when the missionaries tell you that, by praying over it, you'll be convinced of its divine inspiration - this is important because you'll see that the book in itself does not support the fully developed Mormon religion.

  Mormon America: The Power and the Promise was written by Richard N. Ostling and Joan K. Ostling, and published by HarperCollins. Written by non-Mormons, the book covers Mormon history, theology and practice.

  No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith the Mormon Prophet by Fawn M. Brodie (originally in 1945 but still in print) is a classic by an ex-Mormon taking a critical view of Smith's life and career.

  Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition by Jan Shipps - a woman who moved to Utah, took up an interest in Mormonism (but not converting), and became a religious scholar in her own right. Her thesis is that Mormonism is a new religion which springs from, but is distinct from Christianity - similar to Christianity's being distinct from Judaism. This is not an easy read, but may give additional insights.

  There is plenty of information on the internet - and in fact Mormonism is considered by many to be the "other" great American cult (other than JWs) - and there is no reason why anyone should be lead step by step into a conversion if they are wary of this religion.
• 
  2

  The wisdom of Edward

  by Justin in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i've been reading edward gibbon's the history of the decline and fall of the roman empire, and his assessment of the prophet mohammed makes me wonder about some of the religious personages with whom we have to deal.

  it possess the question whether or not a religious leader or founder must be categorized as either good or evil, or if there is a gray area on which we cannot be quite precise.

  without saying too much, gibbon found it necessary to address the founding of islam because this led to the fall of constantinople and the eastern empire long after the western empire had collapsed.

  1. 
  2. 
• 

  Justin

  I've been reading Edward Gibbon's The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, and his assessment of the prophet Mohammed makes me wonder about some of the religious personages with whom we have to deal. It possess the question whether or not a religious leader or founder must be categorized as either good or evil, or if there is a gray area on which we cannot be quite precise.

  Without saying too much, Gibbon found it necessary to address the founding of Islam because this led to the fall of Constantinople and the Eastern Empire long after the Western Empire had collapsed. Nor do I understand what Gibbon means by the "daemon of Socrates" - though I do know that in classical Greek the word daimon does not necessarily have the negative connotation that it does in NT Greek.

  The unity of God is an idea most congenial to nature and reason; and a slight conversation with the Jews and Christians would teach him to despise and detest the idolatry of Mecca. It was the duty of a man and a citizen to impart the doctrine of salvation, to rescue his country from the dominion of sin and error. The energy of a mind incessantly bent on the same object, would convert a general obligation into a particular call; the warm suggestions of the understanding or the fancy, would be felt as the inspirations of heaven; the labour of thought would expire in rapture and vision; and the inward sensation, the invisible monitor, would be described with the form and attributes of an angel of God. From enthusiasm to imposture, the step is perilous and slippery: the daemon of Socrates affords a memorable instance, how a wise man may deceive himself, how a good man may deceive others, how the conscience may slumber in a mixed and middle state between self-illusion and voluntary fraud.
• 
  19

  Stability to Chaos - A Survival Guide

  by LittleToe in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  the thread title is a reference to how i hope this thread will evolve, rather than my own pretentious aspirations.. for many of us, perhaps especially if we were raised as jws, the whole world was pretty black and white.

  we knew what we were doing, why we were here, where we were going, in the midst of a chaotic world we had a stability that others envied - or so we thought.... for most of us reading this site our eyes have likely at some point been opened to realise that many of our previous strongly-held beliefs were dust.

  if we have left the wts or been forcibly ejected then we have also experienced shunning.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Justin

  I think being more aware of what is happening in the larger culture (or "the world") helps us to realize that we are not alone in our chaos. By viewing movies, art, reading books (both novels and heavy duty), we see a world which is traveling from one fad to another, accepting whatever happens to be politically correct. We see liberals vs. conservatives, and vice versa. It is a world which has lost much of its own stability in traditional morality and religion. An old paradigm has been lost, and no one knows what the new one will be. We are conscious of what we have lost, but the larger culture is not. Still, our experience is just a special case of what is now commonplace. As part of our re-education, we need to have a broader view of the larger culture.
• 
  35

  Hi! Any other Latter Day Saints here?

  by ElderBarry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi my name is lisa.

  i'm not an elder of course and never have been.

  i was a jw for just a few years and then relocated and left it behind.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Justin

  So are you a "New Order Mormon" - a person who chooses to remain in the LDS while not being able to accept all of the religion at face value? Walter Lippman once said that those who are liberal Christians say that they believe in a "higher sense" - but the fact remains that they believe an a different sense from fundamentalists. But it is interesting that, while the leadership of the LDS Church had no intention of making it possible for members to believe in a "higher sense," the degree of control is not as great as with JWs and therefore it is possible for Mormons to be liberal in their approach. I wonder, if such had been possible with the JWs, would you have remained a JW?

  There is a board for New Order Mormons - http://www.aimoo.com/forum/freeboard.cfm?id=319220 . Perhaps you will find your experience is similar to that board's posters.
• 
  15

  cemetaries

  by moomanchu in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  kingdom halls don't have cemetaries like other churches do .

  is this another mind game to make the believers think they will never die?

  are the witnesses to cheap to have a cemetary, grass cutting maintenance and such?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Justin

  The idea of a church cemetery is based on the concept of "sacred space" - that the church can somehow "bless" a certain area and make it holy as a suitable place for the dead to rest and await the resurrection. This is entirely foreign to the JW religion. Even their Kingdom Halls are not "holy" in this sense, and the old Jewish temples are considered to have foreshadowed a spiritual reality which can no longer be duplicated in a physical building. There are plenty of secular cemeteries for "all faiths" which can be used for burial.
• 
  21

  JW's vs United Church of God

  by lisavegas420 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  two months ago, i wrote the wbts and requested a 'what does the bible really teach'.

  well it hasn't shown up.

  but at the same time, i ordered a "what does the bible really teach' from the united church of god.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Justin

  As to the question about witnessing and evangelizing, Armstrong did not encourage his people to even do incidental witnessing. Instead, they were to pay their tithes to allow the church to evangelize through whatever means were used (such as free publications which could be mail-ordered). I understand they even paid triple tithes. I don't know to what extent the United Church has continued this practice.