Justin

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Posts by Justin

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  41

  Why did I leave after 50 yrs a JW

  by londoner in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am not posting this to justify my actions, i am doing so for the benifit of any witnesses who are unsure about there feelings toward the "truth".

  i was a reguler pioneer for about 8 yrs, back when it was 100 hours a month, befor thet i did a couple of yrs as a vacation pioneer, they later changed the name to auxilery pioneer, and during the following 20 yrs i had a few intermitant spells as an auxilery when i had time to.

  during my pioneer years i have given talks at circuit assemblies and had assignments at district assemblies .

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  Justin

  Good to have you aboard.
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  71

  'This Generation'

  by fairchild in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yes, again... after reading numerous posts on this site and doing some research on my own, i have a strong feeling that my whole belief will soon stand or fall with the understanding of 'this generation'.. matthew 24:3 .."tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?".

  matthew 24:7 for nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.. matthew 24:34 truly i say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.. .

  generation:noun: group of genetically related organisms constituting a single step in the line of descent noun: the normal time between successive generations example: "they had to wait a generation for that prejudice to fade".

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  Justin

  steve2,

  Good, I'm glad to see that there are some sources we can go to which may prepare us to face radical uncertainty if the culture continues to shift in that direction. I'm not sure how noticeable such a shift will be to the average person, as many people already find fault with those who think they are right simply because of their dogmatism. But it would seem that extremely conservative groups might end up like the Amish - isolated with their horses and buggies. There certainly won't be much opportunity for evangelism then!

  fairchild,

  2 Peter 3 illustrates what I mentioned - that the solution to any perceived "delay" was to put off the "end" indefinitely - not to continually set new dates as JWs have done. It was a solution that lasted a long time until people started speculating about the end-times again.
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  71

  'This Generation'

  by fairchild in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yes, again... after reading numerous posts on this site and doing some research on my own, i have a strong feeling that my whole belief will soon stand or fall with the understanding of 'this generation'.. matthew 24:3 .."tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?".

  matthew 24:7 for nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.. matthew 24:34 truly i say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.. .

  generation:noun: group of genetically related organisms constituting a single step in the line of descent noun: the normal time between successive generations example: "they had to wait a generation for that prejudice to fade".

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  Justin

  steve2,

  In your previous comment, you mentioned the lack of tolerance for ambiguity. Have you noticed that this tendency is displayed, not only by ex-JWs who accept a new set of religious beliefs in place of their old ones, but also by the unbelievers as well? In other words, unbelievers may be just as sure about what is not true as believers are sure of what is. In the area of critical evaluations of scriptures there are usually various theories about any given issue. Do you ever see a post which says, in effect, "It may be this way or it may be that?"

  It is quite possible that Western culture is now shifting from a worldview of modernity to post-modernity. The modern worldview came about as a result of the Enlightenment, in which reason and science were used to arrive at ultimate reality as opposed to traditional faith or revelation. Fundamentalism is a reaction to the Enlightenment, but it also accepts Enlightenment principles in arriving at faith. That's why we have creation science and expeditions to find Noah's ark, etc. Fundamentlists (including JWs) are actually agreeing with the modern worldview that we can find truth using rational and scientific principles.

  In a post-modern worldview, the idea of truth itself becomes relative. We are faced with the prospect that there may not be an ultimate truth for us to apprehend. What becomes important is our own subjective experience based in the communities to which we belong. How are we to proceed with such a worldview? This is a problem which is faced, not just by those whose decision is to remain religious or even Christian (such as myself), but by those who are unbelievers as well.

  I do not find anyone on this board working on this issue. And yet, if post-modernism does indeed become the emerging worldview of the West, it will leave fundamentalists, the JWs, and former JWs whatever their persuasion devestated.

  This is a subject for a whole series of posts, but as you brought up the issue of ambiguity here, I thought I'd mention it. If you can do anything to help us, please do.
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  71

  'This Generation'

  by fairchild in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yes, again... after reading numerous posts on this site and doing some research on my own, i have a strong feeling that my whole belief will soon stand or fall with the understanding of 'this generation'.. matthew 24:3 .."tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?".

  matthew 24:7 for nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.. matthew 24:34 truly i say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.. .

  generation:noun: group of genetically related organisms constituting a single step in the line of descent noun: the normal time between successive generations example: "they had to wait a generation for that prejudice to fade".

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  Justin

  I think, too, that the lack of evidence for there being a crisis in the Christian communities after the "delay in the Parousia" provides a contrast between the Church and the JWs today. In reading the Apostolic Fathers (late first, early second century) and the Apologists (2nd to 3rd centuries) we do not find any attempt to set new dates for the end, as Adventists, Russell and JWs have done. We find no written record of any disappointment, which I suppose could be used to argue that in fact there was no perceived delay - although I personally would not use this as an argument. But it does indicate that the community was not so imbedded in apocalyticism that it could not move on. What had been expected as an early fulfillment was but off indefinitely and, by the fifth century, Augustine dealt a death-blow to apocalypticism by interpretting the Millennium symbolically - the so-called "amillennial" theory which was considered orthodox until recently. The fact that there have been some apocalyptic revivals over the course of 2,000 years does not negate the fact that the post-70 C.E. church handled the situatation quite successfully.
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  16

  Culture or the lack thereof

  by Justin in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  to belong to a culture is part of being human.

  yet, jws and evangelicals are told to avoid being contaminated by the secular culture.

  the evangelical movement, however, has created a subculture of its own.

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  Justin

  To belong to a culture is part of being human. Yet, JWs and Evangelicals are told to avoid being contaminated by the secular culture. The Evangelical movement, however, has created a subculture of its own. There is a Christian music industry, Christian social events, dating services, television, etc. There is no corresponding JW subculture in this sense. The JW must fill time with field service, study, and meeting attendance. Any cultural needs must be met by rubbing shoulders with the larger culture which in principle should be avoided. Do you think that the lack of an alternative subculture makes JW life more stressful than it otherwise might be?
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  8

  What are Y O U talking about?

  by robhic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  excuse me if this has been discussed before but i've been meaning to ask.

  why is the word you or your always capitalized in the nwt?

  ) of the quotes i've seen always capitalize the words but i've never seen another bible do this.

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  Justin

  English used to have a distinction between the second person singular and plural. In the King James Version "ye" is the plural form for "you," and "thou" is the singular. In this way, the older English could reflect the Biblical languages. I can't faul the NWT for attempting to make up for this, but the way it was done looks like an emphasis technique rather than a grammatical one.
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  71

  'This Generation'

  by fairchild in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yes, again... after reading numerous posts on this site and doing some research on my own, i have a strong feeling that my whole belief will soon stand or fall with the understanding of 'this generation'.. matthew 24:3 .."tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?".

  matthew 24:7 for nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.. matthew 24:34 truly i say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.. .

  generation:noun: group of genetically related organisms constituting a single step in the line of descent noun: the normal time between successive generations example: "they had to wait a generation for that prejudice to fade".

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  Justin

  Fairchild,

  It seems your original concern, that the passing away of the 1914 generation might prove the Bible wrong, was based on the assumption that Jesus correctly foretold World War I. So it would then be proposed that he was right about the world war and succeeding events, but wrong about the generation! Now the friends, trying to be helpful, have pointed out that Jesus was speaking about his own generation, which would also suggest that he may have been "wrong." So now we have three items on the table: (1) was Jesus referring to his own generation, (2) to a later generation, and (3) was Jesus wrong? It would seem that the third item hits the panic button, and as I suggested in another thread, not everyone who asks a Bible question is prepared to receive a "critical answer" - though in this case the question naturally led to such an answer. That is why I suggested that some would be better off using older commentaries.

  You know, Matthew 24 has been around for a long time. What did commentators think was meant by "this generation" before 1914? True enough, the prophecy needed to be explained once Jerusalem was destroyed and nothing else happened. But I don't think the explanation was to latch onto every succeeding generation as being the terminal generation.

  If you don't want Jesus to be "wrong," it behooves you to take a fresh look at the prophecy as a whole and consider other explanations - not just the one that has been drummed into your head. As a start, I suggest reading Great Prophecies of the Bible by Ralph Woodrow, which may be ordered from the Ralph Woodrow Evangelistic Association, Inc., P.O. Box 21, Palm Springs, CA 92263-0021. Ralph Woodrow has helped many (including members of the Worldwide Church of God) to arrive at a more "balanced" view of prophecy without subverting their faith in the Bible.

  Link: http://www.ralphwoodrow.org/books/great.htm
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  7

  jehavah an hallelujah

  by lurk in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  why does the nwt print the word hallelujah but use and e not and a in jehovah?.

  please xplain it simply if you know cause my brain left me and has moved abroad.

  lurk

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  Justin

  I suppose you know that the name "Jehovah" is artificial creation. That is, the Name found in the Hebrew Scriptures is YHWH, and there are no vowels. But "Hallelujah" (or "Praise Yah") has been assigned vowel signs by the Hebrew scribes, and is therefore pronouncable. Also, the Greek language has vowels, and the pronunciation is the same.

  Modern scholars think the original pronunciation of YHWH was "Yahweh," and this would agree with the "Yah" part of "Hallelujah." But the Society, which is otherwise anti-traditional, insists on using the traditional pronunciation of "Jehovah."
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  6

  The Society's Jewish Matrix

  by Greenpalmtreestillmine in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  they are more jewish than gentile in every sense.

  they are more christianized jew than any other christian religion, imo.

  if jesus were to look for a religious home close to the first century religious home he lived in i believe the witnesses would both negatively and positively fit the bill.

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  Justin

  Well now they've been upstaged by the Messianic movement, haven't they? I think Jesus would prefer something that was actually Torah observant, not the JWs. With their emphasis on the older scriptures, yet avoidance of Torah, the JWs in some respects are probably more like the early Gentile believers who did not keep the Law, but yet were more influenced by their Judaic heritage than the later Church. Some historians consider the early church to have been a "Christian synagogue."
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  5

  Help finding some scriptural references please

  by gaiagirl in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  today a co-worker asked whether i believed we were living in the "end times" or not, and i explained that i did not, and that christians had believed that they were living in the "last days" since the first century.

  the topic drifted, as sometimes happens, and we got to discussing mary.

  i explained that i thought i remembered a passage indicating that mary would be exalted to a special position in the "heavenly kingdom".

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  Justin

  The only scripture text which could remotely relate to this is Revelation 12 (the whole chapter) about the 'woman in heaven.' This text might be used devotionally by Roman Catholics, but I don't think even their scholars would say it directly refers to Mary. The "woman," of course, is symbolic and has been variously understood. She may have been foreshadowed by "Zion" in the Hebrew Scriptures (Isa. 54:1; 66:8). Some think she is the nation of Israel, others the Church (conceived of including believers of both the Old and New Testaments). JWs think this refers to "Jehovah's universal organization."