Posts by unshackled

33

Bible Contradictions

by brotherdan in

i will go out on a limb and say that this has probably been discussed alot.

but for my own personal benefit i'd like to hear everyones "favorite" bible contradiction.

i'd also like to hear any refutes that anyone has to any of these contradictions.

The dramatic inconsistency of the listed lineage of Jesus Christ, from David down to Joseph. Seeing that JC is the most important character in the bible (besides god) and that it is supposedly fulfilling prophecy you'd think it would be an important list to get right. For a god, at least.

Matthew (1:1) lists 28 intermediate generations from David to Joseph. But Luke (chapter 13) lists 41 generations. But wait...even further, nearly none of the names match each other's list. Huge discrepancy there.

Even more confusing, if Jesus supposedly was born from a virgin mother, how does Joseph lineage have anything to do with Jesus? He wasn't his father.

How could a god screw up so royally? Not likely. But it is likely if a god had nothing to do with the bible.

26

Top 5 Flawed Teachings

by MrFreeze in

this is for all of you out there who post wells of information on the doctrines of jw's.

let's say you had to present your top 5 arguments for why jw's are not the true religion, which five would you choose?

i'd like to hear all of your thoughts.

unshackled

You got it right OnTheWayOut. The phrase 'true religion' is an oxymoron. The bible was not inspired by a 'creator'...man simply wrote it. That said my top 5 things that are absurd about the JWs...in no particular order...

1. Blood issue 2. Generation teaching(s) 3. Shunning/disfellowshipping 4. 1975 prediction 5. CT Russel's pyramid nuttery and Rutherford's Beth Sarim

21

Has anyone read the book of mormom and compared to bible?

by EndofMysteries in

just curious if the message is the same or anything extra in it.

i'll eventually read it to decide if i think it's in agreement and inspired.

to those who say no books would be added after revelation, i say read that scripture again, it's for the book of revelation itself.

unshackled

Read 'Under the Banner of Heaven' by Jon Krakauer for an excellent portrayal of the rise and history of the LDS church. Joseph Smith was no prophet...just another religious huckster.

26

Why would a 1st Century nobody want to believe a Jesus story?

by Terry in

first century.. rome.

jerusalem.

galilee.. low tech world.. roman armies marching always into battles.. sons and fathers conscripted to fight and die.. taxes.. morning to sundown scraping out a meager living.. .

unshackled

Well written Terry. I really enjoyed that. What amazes me is how entrenched the bible story still is in our world. I forget which Pope said it (Pope Leo X?) but it certainly rings true: "It has served us well this myth of Christ."

40

Shunned by the world, then by the JWs and then shunned by Theists, when does this end?

by cyberjesus in

when i was a jw i always hide my jw status to people of the world because i was taught that we were hated by satan and his world.

and indeed in school i experienced being ostracized by my religious beliefs and everytime i had to take a stand not saluting the flag i was the object of ridicule.. then when i left the jw now i am shunned by my family by taking a firm posture on my beliefs or disbeliefs.

now i am ostracized by my own jw family because i dont go along their set of doctrines.. now that i have abandoned any religious belief altogether feel how most people who dont believe in a god are ostracized from the majority of the populations.

unshackled

I hear ya Cyber. My path is similar to yours. Left about 10 years ago. Shunned by the majority of my family, all the friends and relatives I had growing up too. All basically gone from my life. Although I dislike the word atheist that is the category I would now be put into. I don't like the word because it seems unneccessary, we don't have a word for being a non-astrologer or being a non-stamp collector.

Anyways, there are days where I just shake my head that an atheist is considered the odd one just because we don't sign up for one of the thousands of belief systems. We choose not to be a member of one of the "we have all the answers about life" clubs. Choosing to not believe anything without evidence should be considered a virtue. Apparently not on this planet.

Think it was Sam Harris that said something like this..."George W. Bush said that invading Iraq was a mission from God. The president says he talks with God thru prayer. But if he announced that he talked to God thru his blowdryer there would be a national uproar. I don't see how the blowdryer part makes it anymore adsurd."

87

The EVOLUTION thread!

by BurnTheShips in

i would like to start a boilerplate thread to discuss evolution.

there seems to be a great deal of interest in the subject.. so, i ask our members, what do you think about the veracity of the biological theory known as evolution?.

is it true?

unshackled

There should be no debate on whether evolution is true or not. It is a fact. Of course, creationists who take the bible literally are desperate to dispute it to hang on to their church/business. Interestingly, they like to attack the fossil record but evolution stands as fact even without the fossils. The fossils are just icing on the evolution cake.

The debatable, and currently unknowable, topic is the first cause or origin of life for the evolution process. Once the evolution process began there is no evidence of "design". In fact, the human body is rather a mess. Check out the path of the laryngeal nerve...no logic or intelligent design there. When observed in the giraffe it is clearly an absurd detour - but concrete evidence of evolution.

So...the real question is: was the evolution process set in motion by an intelligent entity? If so, the only option certainly isn't what we humans have come to consider to be God. Personally, I don't like the word 'god' because it has been hijacked by the god of the bible. And we all know the bible is man-made. A "god" could just as likely be an advanced alien species that is running the human experiment here on earth. With the universe being some 13.5 billion years old (and earth 4.5 billion) all it would take is an alien species having a few million years advance evolution on us humans to be far more advanced than us.

But you can't jump to any of these "creation" conclusions because they have zero supportive evidence. Point is, sure you can have 'faith' in a god, but having 'faith' in an alien species is also equally probable (or equally unlikely if you will). Hence we have atheists. We humans don't know. Couldn't possibly know. And it is just fine to refuse to sign up to one of the thousands of belief systems until there is any evidence.

47

Bible CONTRADICTIONS (Post Yours Here!) -- And Yahweh is a "Monster"!

by UnDisfellowshipped in

"yahweh is a monster and the bible is full of contradictions!".

this is for all atheists, skeptics, believers, anyone to post the biggest contradictions that you believe are found in the bible, and also to tell about why you believe the god of the old testament (yahweh/jehovah) is a "monster" (as so many have said on this website in the past).. so this is a double-themed-thread!.

i want to see if i can provide good answers/solutions using logic and reasoning..

unshackled

I think one of the biggest contradictions in the bible is the lineage of David to Jesus. Matthew lists 28 intermediate generations from David to Joseph. But Luke lists 41 intermediate generations. If that isn't bad enough, get this: hardly any of the names match each other's list!

With Jesus playing the starring role in the bible, how can anyone consider this work to be the inerrant and inspired word of a god? You'd think those details would've been accurate for the supposed key character in the history of the world. That is one massive error for an all-knowing, all-seeing god.

14

Do they still have that sky blue book on Creation vs Evolution?

by NomadSoul in

i just thought of that from reading another tread.

i remember we were studying that book the same time they were teaching the theory of evolution in my biology class.

i need to get that book just to bring back memories.

unshackled

@smiddy: It appears from a quick google search that Broca's Brain was released in 1979. Well before Creation/Evolution book..which I believe was around 1985...give or take. I had never read that passage by Sagan, thanks for pointing it out. World needs more Carl Sagans.

@NomadSoul: Very cool we were on the same wavelength around the same age. That's why I'm thrilled to have found this forum. A place to find like-minded individuals who know the conflicts and issues of having been a JW, and the troubles in shedding that skin. Intellectual freedom rocks!

14

Do they still have that sky blue book on Creation vs Evolution?

by NomadSoul in

i just thought of that from reading another tread.

i remember we were studying that book the same time they were teaching the theory of evolution in my biology class.

i need to get that book just to bring back memories.

unshackled

Think I was about 13 when we studied that Creation book. Just like you Nomad it only raised questions in my head but was afraid to mention them.

Example - the book would say how the planet earth is in just the perfect position for life to exist - how can this happen by chance? I thought to myself "well, in the previous chapter it talked about how vast the universe is, with trillions upon trillions of stars, planets, etc. It only makes sense that odds would be plenty of planets would be in the perfect position for life." Fast forward 20 years or so and I read The God Delusion and learned that this is called the Anthropic Principle. Cool to have my 13-yr-old thoughts confirmed.

By the way, evolution is very much a fact. If you want to read the overwhelming evidence I suggest Greatest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins. But don't confuse evolution with the origin of life. It only explains how the diversity of life on this planet came about, evolution by natural selection. No one knows the actual origin of life...or the big why are we here question. Or as Stephen Hawking put it "why is there something instead of nothing?"

If someone tells you they know those answers, the next thing out of their mouth will be "join my church, please give money." Nobody knows, but some do jump to extravagant conclusions without any evidence.

6

Help with Doubting BIL

by Simon Morley in

i have a bil that has started to doubt.

he is hung up on the fact that he sees jw's as the only one fullfilling the preaching of the good news.

i am sure there are some excellent past posts on this topic and would be happy to get them.

unshackled

Well, there are a myriad subjects to bring up to help 'the tipping point'. But directly responding to the "JWs are the only ones preaching" is easy. They are not. The LDS church (mormons) preach door-to-door and even have their university to prep them for missionary work in other countries.

It might even be said that they are even better at propagating in their preaching work. There are 14 million mormons vs. 7 million JWs.

If god's true religion on earth is marked by being the only ones preaching, then things just got really confusing for a JW. Of course, it will be met with denial from most. They'll say "well, the mormons are a false religion so that doesn't count."

First post by the way. Thrilled to have found this forum and like-minded individuals. Been free for 10 years now...after born and raised hardcore. Now I know the real truth.