Thank-you all for your comments. Several people refered to the RCC as
being much more open-minded than I potrayed in my first post.That is
no doubt true in many western settings.I remember having a study in a
priest`s home in the mid-west.It is also true that unlike cults, the
RCC will do works of compassion for the non-Catholic, i.e. hospital,
refuge work,etc. As far as openess towards other religions,however,I
would like to point out that the attitude varies greatly from place to
place.I have encountered the Catholic church in both Mexico and in the
Philippines and there was by no means that `glastnot` openess that
several of the posts refered to. Much to the contrary.In the Philippines a priest ranted and raved with great anger and told the
villagers, `If you listen to these people,your baptism will be dis-
avowed!`.The fear tactic worked.Most people fled.In Mexico a priest
did a flyer distribution telling villagers not to listen to protestant
missionary aquaintances,etc.In both countries,the attitude towards
images was not educational, but rather that of worship. In the Philippines, where I lived for a year,the kissing of statues and
lighting candles,etc. is almost identical to what goes on here in
Japan in the guise of Budhism. So, while I don`t question the previous posts evaluation of modern Catholicism in the west, I would
suggest that the actual state of affairs varies greatly from country
to country. JWD
Posts by JWD
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36The Pope a JW...!!!
by JWD inmost of the relatives on my father`s side were catholic.
i still remember the first time i went to a high mass.
it was a shock to my.
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JWD
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36
The Pope a JW...!!!
by JWD inmost of the relatives on my father`s side were catholic.
i still remember the first time i went to a high mass.
it was a shock to my.
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JWD
Most of the relatives on my father`s side were Catholic. I still remember the first time I went to a high mass. It was a shock to my
system. I felt wierd and wanted to leave as soon as possible. Then
one day I began to put some ideas together and came up with a number
of parallels between the Roman Catholic Chruch and the WTBTS. Here
they are, let me know what you think.
The Catholic Church claims to be the only true church. They use the
term `the Mother Church` .Likewise the WTS claims sole possesion of
the TRUTH and calls the org.`mother`.The RCC has a hierarchal arrangement with priests being the local conduit of TRUTH from on
high.Much like the elder arrangement. The RCC uses fear tactics to
encourage people to stay in the org. In both religions non-believers
get a second chance in the after-life, while apostates are damned.
Both religions have an additional avenue for truth other than the
Bible alone.And both discourage (if not forbid) learning the Bible
on your own,lest you come to a different conclusion than `Mother`.
Both religions rely heavily on visual aids. With the RCC it`s statuary
in the church and robes whereas with the WTS it`s drawings and pictures in their publications. Both include visual representations
of God (Jehovah).Check out the Revelation book and see how many drawings there are of Jehovah all gold and sitting on a throne.I
thought the 10 commandments forbade ANY image of God...! Both religions boast of a unified world-wide organization. Both feature
several extra-biblical prohibitions based on the orgs. interpretation.
With the RCC it includes contraception and marriage of priests as well
as some dietary restrictions. With the WTS the list would include
blood issues (in Japan JWs can`t eat whale meat because it contains
too much blood) as well as dress codes,reporting time,etc.
There are many more similarities which could be mentioned.Maybe,
someone would like to add a few.
I own Russells `Studies in the Scriptures` and while reading how he
(Rutherford perhaps even more so) lashed out at the Catholic church
it struck me that over time the WTS had become very much like the
group it criticized the most. Then I was reminded of the verse in
Romans 2 which says something to the effect that when you judge someone else you often commit the same sins as the `person`you judge.
Perhaps the WTS would best be descibed as the modern American version
of the Catholic church...? JWD -
22
White man`s religion
by JWD ini was in the philippines some time ago.
the big religion there is a group called `iglesia ni cristo`(literally church of christ).
an indigenous group which sprung up around the turn of the century.. it has since become hugh(in the philippines).
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JWD
Moxy,
As to the role of White missionaries in Japan, since WWII white(mostly North American) missionaries have had a big impact in Japan.
A recent example would be the boom in `Christian style` weddings. In
the cities a full 80% of all weddings are `chapel` weddings with a
premium being placed on `White` foreigners doing the service. It fits
the mystic which has been built partly by Hollywood and partly by
virtue of many Japanese traveling abroad.As far as the WT is concerned; currently very few missionaries play a role in the work
here.They did in the 50`s and 60`s, but from the 80`s on there was
a strong growth in numbers and even leadership positions were turned
over to Japanese bros.The head here in Japan is a man named Oda-san.
However,the indirect influence of `western culture` is still all to
very obvious in the WT.Everywhere from the photos of Americans plastered all over the literature to the style of dress and the methods of operations. For example, going door-to-door; while some
other religions do it, it is not at all a natural way of approaching
people in Japan.Most transactions of anything important take place
on a personal, `someone-you-can-trust` type of basis.The cold call to
someone`s home is exceedingly un-natural.The only reason it worked for
a time is that JWs were very persistent and forcibly built `trust`
relationships over time.Interestingly, that is no longer working here
now so the Kingdom Ministry is urging bros. to take advantage of
already existing relationships to get new studies going.
Another interesting topic raised was the similarities between the WT
and the Catholic Church. It has perhaps been touched on before, but is
worth another look sometime. JWD -
17
WT using Satan`s courts again
by JWD ini never cease to be amazed at the blatant double standard the org.has.
toward satan`s world.while condemning it on the one hand,they seem to.
have no reservations about using it fully when it seems advantagous.. let me pass along two recent court cases here in japan.
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JWD
I think I should add some clarification here. `The Pastor` did NOT
keep her against her will. Any `forced` circumstances were the doing
of the husband and or family members. The pastor was asked by the family to come and talk to the woman. There are many aspects of this
particular case which I can`t get into, but these type of interventions in Japan have always been the initiative of family members and any involvement by a pastor or counselor has always been
at the behest of the family.If you include the Moonies and other groups, this kind of intervention has been used very successfully in
literally thousands of cases in Japan. The thing that makes it different than the US is the very high value which has been placed
on families and respect for the parents traditionally here in Japan.
It is that sense of respect which has caused group members to be
willing to listen even if it`s against the groups teaching. Naturally
one of the main statagies of various groups including the WT has been
to drive a wedge through the family and build a wall between the
members of the group and the family. The WT here used to call strong
family affections `dangerous Satanic affections`. JWD -
13
hell?!? we'll all be there someday.
by d0rkyd00d injust wondering who on this board believes in hell (flaming hell that is a commonly shared belief by catholics and others) and why.
i personally think it is bull doody caca.
the entire concept is goofy.
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JWD
There have certainly been misconceptions regarding many aspects of the
metaphysical world including someplace refered to as Hell.Generally,
however, it seems that many misconceptions are created as a result of
something which has the likelihood of existing.Interestingly,most
cultures whether Christian or not have some concept of some form of punishment after death. I believe that the existence of a general
feeling of `rightness` or morality predicates some form of punishment
when that morality is blatantly abused.If there is no price to pay
wherein lies the necessity of acting contrary to basic lustful desire. Certainly, no one of us actually wishes for people to be free
at all times to act accordingly to the passion of the moment.Rather
we believe there is good in suppressing selfishness for the good of
others.If there were no judgement, no future price to pay, all such
repression of desire would become meaningless.The result would be
a world given over to lawlessness. Thus,although I don`t pretend to
have any idea of the nature of `Hell` it does seem consistent with
logic to maintain a belief that there will be a `day of reckoning`.
A time when all men will have to give account for their deeds done in
the flesh. If that position makes me a fanatic...I welcome your comments and ideas. JWD -
17
WT using Satan`s courts again
by JWD ini never cease to be amazed at the blatant double standard the org.has.
toward satan`s world.while condemning it on the one hand,they seem to.
have no reservations about using it fully when it seems advantagous.. let me pass along two recent court cases here in japan.
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JWD
Just to add another twist to the Satan`s court issue which I brought
up, let me mention a recent policy stated in a letter to the elders
approx. 2 years ago. It deals with the attitude elders should take
towards the Japanese police.Namely, a division of the police which is
called `Koan`(public peace keepers).The Koan is a branch of the police
which has the duty of maintaining social order.Since the 1995 nerve
gas attack on a Tokyo subway by a Budhist cult called AUM,the Koan has kept an eye on other `New Religions` and cults. One of the groups
on their list of potentially disruptive group is the WTS.Hence, the
WT headquarters here in Japan issued a directive to the elders about
how to deal with the Koan.In short it says,If at all possible DON`T
Co-operate.More specifically, it says don`t let them see the inside
of a KH unless they absolutely insist in which case only allow them
inside after removing everything from the bulliten board.Also don`t
give them the names of any members of the congregation.It also contains other various instructions regarding non-co-operation.The
letter makes the usual references to the present system of things being controlled by Satan as reasons for hiding things from the
police. Ironically, at the same time the headquarters has launched a
major image improvement campaign to try and change the public impression of the WT as a cult. The info coming from the WT Public
Affairs dept. makes the society sound like the most open-minded religion in the world. Talk about double standards!!! JWD -
17
WT using Satan`s courts again
by JWD ini never cease to be amazed at the blatant double standard the org.has.
toward satan`s world.while condemning it on the one hand,they seem to.
have no reservations about using it fully when it seems advantagous.. let me pass along two recent court cases here in japan.
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JWD
As to forced confinment, as an American, it goes against my sense of
right.In Japan,however,families are viewed as a single unit and the
wishes of the husband,in this case listening to an opposing view,is
traditionally to be respected above any personal values.The husband
was not asking the wife to leave the WT(although certainly hoping that
would be her decision) rather he was asking her to listen to an opposing view.She put cotton in her ears and hummed while he tried to
talk to her.The suit,ironically, was NOT directed at the husband,but
rather the pastor who visited and tried to talk with her on two occasions. The money involved in the settlement was not much.Roughly,
a $3,000 fine. JWD -
14
Late Lloyd Barry`s Prophecy
by JWD inmost brothers know that former gb member lloyd barry was a missionary.
here to japan many years ago.
i have a japanese friend, elder for .
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JWD
Most brothers know that former GB member Lloyd Barry was a missionary
here to Japan many years ago. I have a Japanese friend, elder for
many years, a man who joined the org. in the days when it was very
small here. He used to do field work with Lloyd. Barry stayed at his
house. One day when they out going door-to-door in the Kobe area,
they were talking about a proposed bridge that was to be built to
connect the main island, Honshu, with Shikoku. The project was still
many years in the future. Lloyd turned to brother `T` and said,
`Before that bridge is completed, Armageddon will definitely come`.
Well, as you know Lloyd bit the dust during a convention and the
bridge was completed and dedicated two years ago. So much for end
times prophecy...!! JWD -
17
WT using Satan`s courts again
by JWD ini never cease to be amazed at the blatant double standard the org.has.
toward satan`s world.while condemning it on the one hand,they seem to.
have no reservations about using it fully when it seems advantagous.. let me pass along two recent court cases here in japan.
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JWD
I never cease to be amazed at the blatant double standard the org.has
toward Satan`s world.While condemning it on the one hand,they seem to
have no reservations about using it fully when it seems advantagous.
Let me pass along two recent court cases here in Japan. One regards the blood issue.Several years ago an older sister had an operation at
the Tokyo University Hospital.During surgery she had an unusual amount of blood loss.The hospital had been informed that she was a Witness and would refuse blood, but the nature of the situation demanded instant decision making.They opted to give her a transfusion while she was under anasthesia.She recovered, but later found out that she had received blood.(It had been a common practice here in
Japan for hospitals to show understanding for the JWs feeling about
blood but retain the right to exercise professional judgement in the
case of emergencies.Thus,on several occasions JWs lives were saved
while all the time believing that they hadn`t received blood when in
fact they had.To the average Japanese mind it seems like a perfectly reasonable solution to a difficult issue) The org. however wasn`t
about to sit around and let lives be saved when they could make a
statement about their faithfulness to Jehovah and create some martyrs in the process. So, at the prodding of the org. the woman filed suit.The case carried on for several years,during which time the lady,who was already quite old, died. Ultimately,however, the org. won the suit and claimed it as a great victory for Jehovah.The fallout,however,is that hospitals now have no choice but to refuse to accept cases involving JWs who need blood. Many who would have been helped under the `Don`t ask,Don`t tell`arrangement are now without hope. The org. wins and the average JW loses big time and pays with his/her life.
The second case involves a Baptist pastor who was involved in exit-
counseling.He had counseled nearly 100 bros. and sister at the request
of non-Witness family members.Many of them left the org. as a result.
The WT couldn`t sit around and let that happen, so they did the only
noble thing... they filed suit.The case which went to court involved
a man and his wife who had gotten divorced.The man had brought his
wife to talk to the pastor and kept her against her will for several
days.When she continued to refuse to listen to the pastor, the husband
gave up and they went home.That incident was followed by a messy
divorce ending with the husband getting custody of their children.
The sister became the puppet who gave herself over to the org. in
order to file a suit... not against her husband as that would look
bad in Japan... rather against the Baptist pastor. I attended several
hearings and heard testimony first hand. The WT lawyers were mostly
bros. and were not very experienced. The sisters testimony was like
a talk at the KH. All very stiff and well practiced.Under cross-examination, when asked about the nature of child raising and the
Watchtower`s teaching regarding former members and anti-JW information she lied through her teeth and made it sound the the WT
was the most open-minded group imaginable. I along with several others gasps in unbelief at her obvious lying under oath.After a
two year trial the verdict was delivered last month. It was a 32 pg.
document and is broken into three parts. The first part, dealt with
the issue of facts, and stated that the husband and the pastor had more accurately presented the facts of the case.The second matter dealt with the matter of using extreme measures to make her listen to
critical info. The judge showed sympathy towards the husband with
regards to his desparation to try to keep his young son from being
influenced by the `wife`s religion`.However, he stated that holding
against her will infringed on her freedom of religion and thus could
not be condoned.Therefore;on the surface it is a win for the org. and will undoubtedly be advertised as such. Another case where Jehovah
vindicated his name...? using Satan`s courts...!! JWD -
56
Urban Legends!
by ISP inits amazing the extent these circulate in the wt world.
i am not so sure, but it develops a powerful folklore amongst jws....often with a moral at the end!
typically these circulate as experiences given in talks and are then adopted by the masses as truth.. for example, anyone hear the ul about the married couple where the wife had to have a routine blood check.
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JWD
The one about the big invisible big guy standing behind a pioneer
and protecting her made it`s way to Japan as well. Over here there
are no actual annointed ones, but there are always rumors about
some annointed one in another congregation who is so godly.It`s
always `I heard it from a friend who heard from their friend` type
of `long distance` info. The vagueness probably adds to the mystic.
JWD