The stuff about the kid baptism to me was particularly revolting. Just a mind game/guilt trip for parents who don't think for themselves and for kids who are too young to make life decisions themselves.
JWinSF
JoinedPosts by JWinSF
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Sunday Morning District convention notes
by crownboy inhere are the notes for the sunday morning session of the zealous kingdom proclaimers district convention, the "fine spiritual food" that jw's are fed .
sunday.
a people zealous for fine works- tit.
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JWinSF
Wow, those sure are some beautiful babes. I wonder who does their hair, makeup, and outfits. I'll bet they have faaaaabulously designed homes as well.
Mebbee I'll emulate one of them at Halloween in The Castro this year.
John W Wirtanen
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Noah's Bad Hair Day-A Pride Week Special
by singsongboi innoah's bad hair day.
if you have never been drunk before, the first time can be a bit scarifying.
the bible would have us believe that noah's bout with the bottle, as recorded in genesis 9;20, 21, was his first experience with over-drinking.
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JWinSF
Now, there you go, thinking again! Yeah, the account makes as much sense as the idiotic fundie interpretation of Sodom and Gomorrah.
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For those who bash America
by puppylove inso how small does your "pee pee" have to be to stoop to bashing america on a jw support board?.
feeling rather put upon for america's sake, living in new york city, feeling like bashing in the brains of anyone who says that americans going about their daily routines "brought this (9/11) upon themselves".
i will always remember the day i looked out my window at work and saw over 3,000 people dying..
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JWinSF
High Puppylove,
I assume that you are a resident of the USA, otherwise you wouldn't be upset about others "bashing America". I haven't read the postings that irritated you, so please keep that in mind. If they were truly vile, then I can understand your stance. Yet, I do want to put forth my opinion of the USA versus Canada. I am a citizen of the USA by birth, not by choice. While the USA has a strong economy, IMO it lags far behind Canada in basic social issues. I've visited Canada when I lived in the Detroit, Michigan area up to 1980 [Windsor, Ontario] and have vacationed four times within the past four years [Montreal, Quebec]. Of course, my observations are based on being a visitor, not a resident of Canada. So, it is possible that my views would be somewhat different if I lived there.
However, several things have been consistent from my visits to Windsor in the 60's and 70's and to Montreal in the 90's and 00's. First, the country is very clean. The Canadians take pride in their cities. There isn't the rampant filth that you see in major cities in the USA. Second, the people are invariably more polite that the average person you meet in the USA. Third, they are more progressive on providing health care for their residents. Fourth, they are much more accepting of gays than even the most progressive of USA cities, San Francisco. Fifth, I don't see the serious issues of crime [not that it doesn't exist, just that it doesn't seem to be to the same degree as the USA's cities]. Sixth, I don't see anywhere near the homeless problem there [but, again, San Francisco admitedly has a big problem that may not be shared with as greatly by other USA cities].
Also, I find it rather arrogant that the USA historically refers to itself as "America" as if it has sole claim to the name. The USA is part of North America, but so is Canada and Mexico. Like the USA, Canada restricts immigration. If it were a bit easier for me to get into my desired local [Montreal or possibly either of the bi-coastal cities of Vancouver or Halifax], I'd move there in an instant.
The only thing that the USA surpasses Canada in, again in my opinion, is the strength of its economy. But, even this seems to be seriously weakening. And, life is not only about money. I'd rather be a bit poorer money wise and richer humanity wise.
If you wish to take this as bashing, so be it. But, I believe bashing is when one strikes out verbally or physically at something/someone else merely because of its/their existence. My comments are based on my observations and not simply "an attack on America".
One of the worst insults that can be given a Canadian is that "Canada is just like the United States". I can see why they would be offended based on what I've outlined above. Don't get me wrong, I do love San Francisco and California [but don't have nearly as much respect for most areas of the USA other than the New England States]. I do appreciate the many good things that come along with living in the USA. But, I view it somewhat similarly to my experience of having been a JW. At our first "A Common Bond" conference in Washington, D.C., one of the topics was whether or not we got anything good from our exposure to the JWs. While there were some who viewed everything as having been of no value, many of us knew that we did get some good things as well. I summed it up with this statement: "I gained many good things from my being a JW, but for me it came at far too high a cost." In other words, I could have gotten the same good things from other sources and not have experienced the heavy-handed control of the JW hierarchical/theological straight-jacket. So it is with my view of the USA. I could also get many of the good things that I have in the USA from Canada and quite possibly other countries as well and not have to put up with the filth, high crime rates, rudeness, gay-bashing, lack of healthcare for others, and rampant homelessness.
John W Wirtanen
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Gay Pride Week: Who's Celebrating & How?
by Fire Dragon inhow many of us xdubs are glb or t?
(gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender).
this weekend i'll be celebrating with friends and "family" over burgers and beer!
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JWinSF
Hi Dungbeetle,
It was so fab having you visit us this weekend. All of us LUV you! Today was as expected even busier than yesterday. We had so many ex-JWs contact us at our booth. It was also HOTTER, whew, this San Francisco guy can't handle hotter weather!
Hope your trip back was restful. Thanx for the kind words about us.
Can't wait to see you again,
John W Wirtanen
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JW Prince not so popular now
by JWinSF insaw this in today's san francisco "the examiner" under the 2nd page "scoop" by bill picture:.
prince's fall.
prince is so b-list that the management at his favorite club won't even hold his favorite booth for him anymore.
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JWinSF
Saw this in today's San Francisco "The Examiner" under the 2nd page "Scoop" by Bill Picture:
Prince's fall
Prince is so B-list that the management at his favorite club won't even hold his favorite booth for him anymore. I don't think Jehovah's Witnesses are allowed to go to clubs, though, are they?
John W Wirtanen
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Gay Pride Week: Who's Celebrating & How?
by Fire Dragon inhow many of us xdubs are glb or t?
(gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender).
this weekend i'll be celebrating with friends and "family" over burgers and beer!
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JWinSF
Our's in San Francisco is this weekend. So, on Saturday and Sunday our Support Group for GLBT ex-Dubz will have a booth in the Civic Center. We used to march in the Parades, but last year did the booth instead and got hundreds of people stop and talk to us. Most were ex-JWs, but some were friends either of active or ex-JWs. We even got a contact with a lady who did a radio interview with us. You can hear the interview on our website www.gayxjw.org by clicking the link "listen to our radio interview" half-way down the home page.
Probably will stop by The Castro on Saturday evening for "Pink Saturday", the annual party where literally many blocks are closed to through traffic [including the main thoroughfare Market Street].
John W Wirtanen
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Excellent POV film on PBS last night
by jukief ini watched a very interesting and touching program on pbs last night (tuesday).
it portrayed a mormon family, the smiths, as they dealt with some very devastating circumstances.
the husband was a closeted gay for many years who ended up getting aids and bringing it home to his wife.
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JWinSF
Yes, the similarities between the JWs and the Mormons are far greater than fewer. I first came to realize this in 1994. I went to see the dual plays by Tony Kushner, "Angels in America" and "Perestroika" [hope I have the spelling correct on the later]. It was a play about a closeted gay man in the Mormon church. He was also married. I went with another gay couple, and a gay ex-JW friend of mine. During the intermission my friend turned to me and asked who the characters reminded me of. I immediately said that the author could have changed the references of Mormon to Jehovah's Witness, the Tabernacle to Kingdom Hall, and Salt Lake City to Brooklyn and change not one other word and the story would have worked as is. That's how close the experience of a gay man in the JWs [for me and my friend] was to that of the young Morman man's experience.
I believe that the JWs take everything a step further in terms of control, but it's only a matter of degree. Life for a gay man as a Mormon would surely [IMO] be the same living hell as for one who's a JW.
Out of the JWs, out of the closet, and happy for it.
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Ladies - what's your favourite men's cologne?
by Beck_Melbourne injust a bit of fluff...what's your favourite men's cologne or women's perfume scent?.
have you ever got a gentle wiff of a really nice cologne and wanted to ask the owner what the name of it is??
if its a woman i will ask, only because i want to go out and buy some.
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JWinSF
Not speaking as a lady, but as a gay man. I usually wear Paul Sebastian [his signature fragrance]. I used to use Polo, Givenchy Gentlemen, and Aramis. But, I got tired of them. Several years ago a saleswoman at Macy's suggested PS [that's how the bottle looks, a rectangular one with his initials]. So, I tried it. Immediately I started getting compliments from men and women. Not a week goes by when I wear it that someone doesn't ask what it is. OK, maybe it's the reaction with my own personal body chemistry. So often that's the case. But, I do recommend at least getting some samples. PLUS, they have the all time, knock-down, drag-out, best gift promotions of ANY of the men's fragrance manufacturers. But, don't expect to find it any any but "better" department stores. However, I do believe that the discount "Perfumia" carries it.
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Dr. Nicolosi and homosexuality
by JWinSF ini was going to respond to isps topic on preventing homosexuality dr. j nicolosi, but due to its number of responses, decided to start a new topic.. nicolosi's comments were prominently referred to in the three 1995 awake!
articles about homosexuality in the "young people ask" section.
i had just come out recently and read the articles.
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JWinSF
I was going to respond to ISPs topic on Preventing Homosexuality Dr. J Nicolosi, but due to its number of responses, decided to start a new topic.
Nicolosi's comments were prominently referred to in the three 1995 Awake! articles about homosexuality in the "Young People Ask" section. I had just come out recently and read the articles. I DAd in 1994. A close JW sister friend of mine had gotten me a subscription [which was not really desired by me]. But, after having accepted my orientation at the age of 45 only 1 year earlier and being ingrained with the societal imprint of negativity about homosexuality due to my pre-Stonewall formative years and JW exposure since childhood, I still wanted to read as much as possible to be SURE that I was OK as I was. That nothing "made" me gay.
So, I with great eagerness went to the public library to look up Nicolosi. All I could find out about him was in a journal that had critical reviews of new books. In it, Nicolosi was thoroughly discredited. Naturally, the JWs would use anyone that would further support their tortured reasoning, whether the person was a reliable source or not.
Nicolosi belongs to the old world school of cause/effect on homosexuality. I'm personally not aware of any psychologists/psychiatrists/counselors that submit to that line of reasoning anymore unless they are personally of the religious right mentality.
In my own case up to the point of my disassociating due to my sexual orientation I [1] never had sexual relations with members of my own sex, [2] did not knowingly associate with gay people in my business life [as an active/avid JW, my dealings outside of work were always with JWs], [3] had an active father figure in my home up to the time I was in 11th grade [parents divorcing then] yet my same sex attractions were clear in my mind dating back to at least 7th grade. In short, all of Nicolosi's causes for my being gay were absent in my life.
There is nothing wrong in itself with being gay. Those in society who look down upon gays do not prevent homosexuality from happening. They only make if more difficult for gays to have feelings of self worth. Thankfully, society as a whole, as each decade passes by, is coming to the realization that they've been fed a great deal of myths about what its like to be homosexual.
After having accepted myself for being gay from birth and having left the BS of the WTBTS by disassociating, I became a much happier person. I started the San Francisco Gay/Lesbian Former Jehovah's Witnesses Support Group in March 1994. Today due to Jim Moon's [he was the first person to respond to my ad] active Webmaster efforts and coining the collective term "A Common Bond" [due to his prior efforts to have a gay/lesbian mailing list for former Jehovah's Witnesses] we are now international. Check out our web site www.gayxjw.org for information on the Bible vs. Homosexuality, Pedophilia, and other interesting topics and links to other sites.
Edited by - jwinsf on 17 June 2002 19:44:51