sometimes, the gender of a poster is relatively easy to deduce due to their style of posting, and, dare i say it, their choice of vocabulatory.
but sometimes it is difficult to know if you are "talking" to a man or a woman (or homosexual).
ok, right away, i hear protests of "what the heck does it matter?
My handle is JWinSF, but I also always sign my posts/replies as John W Wirtanen [which is my name]. So, obviously, I'm male. To add to knowing who I am I'll quote from the movie "Car Wash": "I'm more man than you'll ever be and more woman than you'll ever get." So, Spanner [and may I add that I can't tell from your handle whether you're male of female] I'm also gay. Not into drag, but definitely into men.
John W Wirtanen
it's a shame that such bigotry can still exist in america today.. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20021105/ap_wo_en_po/us_atheist_scout_2.
atheist says he's been booted from boy scouts tue nov 5, 3:16 am et.
by gene johnson, associated press writer.
I have no problem with them setting up their rules as a private organization. However, they have a history of deceitfully accepting funds from organizations that specifically prohibit discrimination. When the issue of gays in the Scouts came up a short while back, many United Way Organizations, local government agencies, and buisinesses pulled the plug on their funding of the Scouts. Was the Boy Scouts practice of accepting money from organizations that prohibit discrimination in line with their stated principles of "truth, justice, and the American Way"? In my opinion, no. So, if they want to discriminate, fine. But, how dare they take funding from others that clearly state that recipients should not discriminate.
John W Wirtanen
i voted for only one republican in this mid-term election.
i do think that governmental positions should be filled by a diverse group of well-qualified people.. .
but it is very dangerous to allow one party (republican in particular) to have a majority, as has happened in the senate.
Well, I knew that Davis would win, so it was no problem for me to vote for Camejo. However, I did it just because of disgust of Davis. But, truth is, I'd rather have the Scumbag Davis in office than the Asshole Simon. Other than for Governor, I voted Democratic party completely. The Republicans are what JWs would be if they ran for office, IMO. The day that they get out of bed with the religious right is the day that I will give them passing consideration. For now, one cult experience is enough for me. And to all those who complain about rolling blackouts under Davis: HELLO, the engine that put this in place was voted in far before Davis became governor.
BTW, PROUD to live in San Francisco. And, proud to be in a State that is primarily Democrat. California is usually on the cutting edge of economic/socia/political movements. Maybe the rest of the country bamboozled by the GOP will wake up before it's too late.
This has been a paid political endorsement.
John W Wirtanen
last night i happened to surf onto the tonight show.
bob newhart was the first guest, the second was serena williams.
as i'd never actually seen her before [not a sports buff] and all i'd heard about her was the various jw postings, i was curious.. first, she came off as totally natural to me.
Last night I happened to surf onto The Tonight Show. Bob Newhart was the first guest, the second was Serena Williams. As I'd never actually seen her before [not a sports buff] and all I'd heard about her was the various JW postings, I was curious.
First, she came off as totally natural to me. A born comedian/performer. However, what really irked me was she came out in her "tennis skirt". OK, on the tennis court it's OK, as a bathing suit is at the beach. But, jeesh, this was The Tonight Show. If she'd gone into the KH in that outfit she would've been counseled.
Also, her love seems to be increasingly focused on getting into show business. It'll be interesting to see how far she can go before the JWs get POd with her [and I'm not referring to Presiding Overseer] and she crosses that line where they can't reconcile her behavior with that of a loyal Dub.
Don't get me wrong. I think that her outfit was kewl. And, Brava for her getting into Show Biz. But, I have no respect for her trying to live in "The World" and still say that she's a JW. But, even worse than that, I have more contempt for the JW hierarchy that goes along with it.
Here's to looking forward to the day that she wises up and dumps the JWs.
John W Wirtanen
ray franz requested that i post the following comments written by him:
as has been stated already, the presentation made from the silent lambs source in connection with the child abuse issue completely misrepresents my position.
when i spoke by phone recently with the author of that presentation, and pointed out that i had never expressed the views presented, his comment was that from his previous conversation with me (held some months earlier) he "got the impression that i was not on the same wave length" with him.
As others have already said, thank you Amazing. Ray's balanced reply further reinforces my admiration for him. When I first started to consider leaving the JWs, I had lingering doubts about it being "The Truth" and my possibly bringing condemnation upon myself. Ray's books helped me see that it was just another man-made organization that had gone too far in controlling individuals [as many other religious and non-religious organizations do]. As a result, my letter of disassociation went in with not a shred of doubt regarding whether or not I was doing the right thing. Ray's books, in my case, were the reason that I was able to finally "pull the scales off of my eyes".
If you can, please let Ray see the replies that all of us have made.
John W Wirtanen
my lost new posting topic made me think of this question:.
if the wts was more normal, how many would have stayed?.
was it in fact the teachings that made you leave?
I initially decided to DA due to my sexual orientation, but still believed everything else about the Dubz to be correct. Before I sent in my letter of DA, I read Raymond Franz's books. It was then that I knew that even if they openly accepted Gays I wouldn't stay. They would have to get rid of their cult-control methods, own-up to past mistakes, attempt to make amends for the damage caused by their past mistakes, as well as accept my being Gay. However, I believe that even after all that was accomplished, I still wouldn't come back. The experience with the JWs has left a bad taste in my mouth for [1] Christianity and [2] religion in general.
John W Wirtanen
i recently was told by a couple of elders how much they "missed" me since i am no longer an elder.
i got to thinking , "did i miss anything because i'm not an elder?".
i have to say that i really can't think of anything that i truly miss.
No, no, no. Glad to be away from it. While I was an Elder, I liked being of service to the Congregation, particularly as TM School Overseer. However, that's because the rest of my life was so uninteresting. JWs do lead an antiseptic way of life. So anything remotely exciting can be pleasurable.
Now, apart from the Organization and the position [I actually stepped down several years before DAing], the relief from removing the JW shackles is unmeasurable.
John W Wirtanen
as some of you know from my sharing portions of my story on this board before, i disassociated myself from the jehovah's witnesses in 2001. my family, including my mother, sister, and brother, remain jehovah's witnesses.
i have an extremely limited relationship with my mother and sister.
i possess no relationship whatsoever with my brother, his wife, and their now 1 yr old son.
For Kelsey007
"I hope that one day- by my conduct and expample even my 50
year old cousin- who sounds much like your brother- would come to his senses. "
This sounds like the reasoning given by the Organization encouraging wives to subject themselves to all manner of abuse by their non-JW husbands in the hope that they may win them over to "The Truth". That's just another "fairy tale", in my opinion. If Reborn2002's brother is a dumb-ass, he's a dumb-ass. Besides, his brother has in effect made himself NOT his brother anymore by willfully choosing to shun him and/or condemn him to death at Armagdeddon. It's an all too familiar tale of the JW relatives who bring all manner of humiliating type of treatment to their DFd or DAd family members but see nothing wrong about asking for financial help from these same family members. For him to turn down a job that would have pulled him out of the predicament that he is in is not the mark of a wise person. JWs should not have it both ways with them always on the winning side and the DFd or DAd member on the losing side.
If his brother had been more humane, then, yes, perhaps dumb-ass would have been a bit harsh. But, he has not. His brother IS a dumb-ass, again, in my opinion based on what has been presented. And, I quite frankly believe that what has been presented is an accurate account. I've seen and heard of far too many examples of just this type of stupid JW behavior.
I similarly gave up on my JW aunt [whom I would write to and send gifts to, of course not getting any letters in return --- except for one terse thank-you for a gift] after her heartlessly not telling me of my JW uncle's death who prior to my DAing I had been very close to. They pulled away from me, not me from them. I only found out about it through third party, non-JW sources. While she hasn't approached me for funds, she similarly will not get a penny from me after having shunned me. Let her congregation help her out if she ever falls upon hard times. I won't call her a dumb-ass, because on other matters she has basically been level-headed. However, if she too had done the stupid tricks that were outlined in this thread, then she too would warrant the label dumb-ass.
John W Wirtanen
i just read in the 10/11/2002 edition of the san francisco examiner that teresa graves died in a fire at her home in la.
she was 54. for those too young to remember, she was a fabulous comedienne on rowan & martin's laugh-in tv show [that also featured goldie hawn, ruth buzzi, lily tomlin, arte johnson, and many other great talents].
she also did a few movies, the last in 1974. that's about the time that she gave it all up to become a jw.. john w wirtanen
Thanx for mentioning it was already posted yesterday. I didn't notice it.
John W Wirtanen
i just read in the 10/11/2002 edition of the san francisco examiner that teresa graves died in a fire at her home in la.
she was 54. for those too young to remember, she was a fabulous comedienne on rowan & martin's laugh-in tv show [that also featured goldie hawn, ruth buzzi, lily tomlin, arte johnson, and many other great talents].
she also did a few movies, the last in 1974. that's about the time that she gave it all up to become a jw.. john w wirtanen
Hi All,
I just read in the 10/11/2002 edition of the San Francisco Examiner that Teresa Graves died in a fire at her home in LA. She was 54. For those too young to remember, she was a fabulous comedienne on Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In TV show [that also featured Goldie Hawn, Ruth Buzzi, Lily Tomlin, Arte Johnson, and many other great talents]. She also did a few movies, the last in 1974. That's about the time that she gave it all up to become a JW.
John W Wirtanen
