Posts by jamesmahon

43

A critique of Dawkins' "Argument from Complexity."

by BurnTheShips in

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/11/on-dawkinss-atheism-a-response/.

on dawkinss atheism: a responsemy august 1 essay, philosophy and faith, was primarily addressed to religious believers.

it argued that faith should go hand-in-hand with rational reflection, even though such reflection might well require serious questioning of their faith.

jamesmahon

Mad Dawg

I have been trying to follow this thread but losing it a bit to be honest. Not quite sure where you are coming from. Are you saying that god is not complex, is complex in a way that we do not understand or is not complex in the sense he is not lots of intricate pieces that have to be put together in a certain order but rather of a complexity of a nature that cannot be thought of in a material sense? Not trying to be facetious here, just can't get it. If you are saying that you do not need complexity to generate complexity then you do not need god, which is all Dawkins is saying. I cannot see how that is evidence of the existence of god is unless I have missed a line of reasoning somewhere.

19

Will this Society survive ?

by WildeLover in

this is my first post and i suppose something like this has been posted before but i would love to get your thoughts on it.

really do you ever think that the society will fall apart?

or will it always be propped up by die hard members?will it see 2020 i wonder with the growth it has seen?.

jamesmahon

Very true Blondie - I suppose a vow of celibacy for all members is never a particularly positive way to increase membership, on so many levels. I think someone here posted that they are currently at 5600 hours of witnessing for each baptism. Even if all of these baptisms were new converts and not born ins (which of course they are not) then the maths says that a publisher doing ten hours a month can expect to convert one person over a 40 year sales career. I know that pioneers will convert more given higher monthly hours but suspect that for some time the witnesses have been hugely dependent on born ins for growth in publishers in developed countries. I suspect that over the coming years the numbers will start to decline in developed countries and they will have a choice - lighten up and become more mainstream or tighten up and go for the 'little flock' and 'sifting' arguments. I suspect they will go with whichever one they think will wash best with developing countries where they may be having substantial growth.

19

Will this Society survive ?

by WildeLover in

this is my first post and i suppose something like this has been posted before but i would love to get your thoughts on it.

really do you ever think that the society will fall apart?

or will it always be propped up by die hard members?will it see 2020 i wonder with the growth it has seen?.

jamesmahon

I suppose we could spin this question another way and ask whether there have been any other substantial (in size) christian sects in the past that have declined to the point of not existing in any real sense. I am not a historian so could not say but think the Shakers may be an example. I agree with Blondie though - there will always be some members, at least for the forseeable future. However, I think that they will change to become more mainstream and think that pragmatically they will also drop the shunning of former JWs - taking a line that members are free to question the religion with a few core, soft doctrines remaining. I think looking at what has happened with policy on blood transfusions, getting rid of Thursday meetings and reducing length of assembly and public talks it is already happening. They will just turn into a.n.other conservative american church where being a JW will not mean what it does today - just as what it means today does not mean what it meant 30 years ago. Change will be gradual but will happen because it will have to for them to survive. And for those think that it will not - how many people 30 years ago would have seen the ordination of women and gay priests into the anglican church?

69

People Who Refuse to Tip at Restaurants are Embarrassing!

by White Dove in

jw
friends

egg and i were treated out to dinner three times last weekend by out of state visiting relatives.

just found out last night that they don't believe in tipping, at all!

we suggested the places to eat and frequent those places ourselves.

jamesmahon

Thanks Cyberjesus - my point exactly but better put I think.

69

People Who Refuse to Tip at Restaurants are Embarrassing!

by White Dove in

jw
friends

egg and i were treated out to dinner three times last weekend by out of state visiting relatives.

just found out last night that they don't believe in tipping, at all!

we suggested the places to eat and frequent those places ourselves.

jamesmahon

As a Brit who lived in the US for a while I found the whole tipping thing a bit strange. I also worked in a pub for six years so see it from the other side as well. On the whole I find the concept of people being nice to you just because they want a tip really distasteful. Even if they would have been nice anyway I always feel like it is being nice for something in return which just makes me feel awkward. Because of this I never went out to eat much when over there.

As an aside, my wife worked in a posh hotel in Kennbunkport in Maine with a snotty restaurant attached where because of wine bills etc. it was not unusual for a tables total bill to be over $1000. There were some waiters who could walk out with over a $1000 in tips and some very intelligent people worked there who had not ever bothered to go to college or university because of the tips. As an economist that seems a very poor allocation of resources. What do we want to encourage - more doctors, teachers and engineers or more waiters? I suppose if tips are supposed to make wages up to the minimum wage it is slightly different but still can't help feeling the whole thing is flawed.

43

A critique of Dawkins' "Argument from Complexity."

by BurnTheShips in

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/11/on-dawkinss-atheism-a-response/.

on dawkinss atheism: a responsemy august 1 essay, philosophy and faith, was primarily addressed to religious believers.

it argued that faith should go hand-in-hand with rational reflection, even though such reflection might well require serious questioning of their faith.

jamesmahon

Hmmm. Do I engage with this or not?

To begin with, I am not a fan of Dawkins but do not believe in god. I find him abrasive and patronising but no more so than most preachers who get to air their views.

However, having read the god delusion I think that the argument about complexity was brought up because people say that as the universe is so complex it must have been made by someone/something. But this means that the thing who created it was equally complex so who created the creator? I don't think that his the only argument in his book which when taken in conjunction with his others really is saying look, there is no need for a god to explain the creation of the universe. There is no need for a god to explain the things that theists say a god has to exist for. Things get explained by science over time and the good thing about science is that it expands human knowledge and experience by questioning. The benefits of this questioning have been many fold. So yes, why not be agnostic - but then spin it around and say why bother being agnostic. For whatever reason (and science is beggining to find out) humans have a predisposition to the spiritual. But that does not mean that god exists and that spiritual side of me can be fulfilled without the need for god. By loving my children for example. Keep in mind that 99.9% of the animal kingdom get by just fine without believing in god.

35

Do Elders and Bethelites really follow this site?

by jamesmahon in

just a question really and whilst i would not put it past them i sort of feel it is too 'conspiracy theory' for me.

are elders and bethelites officially sanctioned to lurk (or engage) in this or other sites to try to weedle out apostates?

does anyone have any direct experience of it happening?.

jamesmahon

Hi - should have probably made it clear that this thread was only started for my own interest. I could see people being really cautious and wondered whether that was justified. Looks like they are. Me, I couldn't care less and would find it really amusing to think that someone would want to find out who I was. Not that it would be difficult given my unimaginative avatar and telling everyone where I live. I guess I do not have any family or friends to lose though. As I am not DFd I have often thought of writing a letter to my brothers congregation asking to be DFd just so I can imagine my self righteous brother's face as it gets announced from the stage. But then I am lazy and there is part of me that thinks that is giving the organistion some sort of credibility that they do not warrant. Sort of in the same way that I would refuse to bow for royalty or use people's hereditary titles.

34

Is this how all door knocking is now?

by jamesmahon in

i was prompted to join this site as i got a knock on the door a couple of days ago.. no, when i went door knocking 20 years ago - although admittedly i was a child - the sales patter went like this.

ahem... "hello.

we are speaking to you today to tell you about the watchtower and awake.

jamesmahon

St Abbs head is beautiful - in fact I am looking at it now from my window. I wonder if you know the guy who called then? Told me he was 78, had lived in London as a child, then in Durham and now (I assume) up here. Had been a witness for 40 years.

28

Demon possessed furniture?? Any scriptural support?

by digderidoo in

jw
friends

i remember instances where we told that the demons could get into the house through furniture or ornaments.

if anyone had a problem in the house with demons, they should remove anything that they may have bought second hand.

i remember one family getting rid of their carpet!.

jamesmahon

Hm, not quite demon possessed furniture but my twin brother had nightmares where a black hooded man would stand over his bed. This was shortly after my mum died so I wonder why. But my cousin and his wife looked for all sorts of reasons why he was having nightmares and found a VHS recording of the original Lord of the Rings cartoon from about 30 years ago (if you have not seen it you must try and get hold of it - it is bizzare). It was really hard to get hold of but they binned it anyway. Did the nightmares stop? Well no, as I found out the one night I ever got to sleep around his house on the bottom bunk with him on the top and got drenched as he pissed the bed after another nightmare.

35

Do Elders and Bethelites really follow this site?

by jamesmahon in

just a question really and whilst i would not put it past them i sort of feel it is too 'conspiracy theory' for me.

are elders and bethelites officially sanctioned to lurk (or engage) in this or other sites to try to weedle out apostates?

does anyone have any direct experience of it happening?.

jamesmahon

Wow - looks like they do then. Marvin, that is really funny. "he had found himself". I suppose in a way this also shows that someone must have been looking at sites to want him to go and find himself, if that makes any sense. How very sad. Amazing that for all the bible's prophecy it never once mentions the internet (or maybe there is some obscure reference by some wacko prophet along the lines of "and the trustworthy snail was gobbled up by the many headed hedgehog. And lo! the hedgehog began to feast upon the vomit of the unbelievers". I am sure it will be in there somehwere)