Posts by jws

52

A Plan to Stop Gun Violence

by Crazy151drinker in

jw
friends

ok folks here is my plan to reduce the amount of gun violence in the u.s. im sorry but i cannot help out the european countries becuase a) i dont live in europe and b) only naughty people have guns in europe.. ok. i have come to the conclusion that drugs in the u.s. need to be not only de-criminalized but legalized so that they can be taxed.

by legalizing drugs the profit gained by selling them will plummet and it will not be cost effective for gang members and cartels to import/deal drugs in the u.s. and the violence surrounding drugs will vanish as there will be no motive (ie $$$$$) to commit such violence.. ok. now the problems.

1) no one likes to admit they are wrong (especially the govt.).

jws

In general I agree with the legalization and taxation and more money being spent on treatment of addicitons.

But one thing I still question is the notion that if you take away the drug business that the crime and violence stops along with it.

Perhaps the addict can buy cheaper and does not need to steal to support a habit. But the drug dealers themselves? Criminals are people who want to take the risks and make the big bucks. If it's not drugs, most will probably make a switch to some other form of illegal trade. You might eliminate the small-time dealers who make enough to support their personal habit, but the ones who are willing to commit real crimes are probably not going to go get an office job and live happily ever after. If they were willing to do that, they'd have paid for an education and gone the risk-free route as soon as they could afford to. Perhaps by legalizing the drug trade these people will start in (as stated) the tax-free smuggling trade. Or maybe they'll start holding up people or breaking into homes, increasing violence.

When you have people who are so economically depressed and their only option is to take the big risk, even if it means becoming a criminal, they will do it. You're just eliminating one way to take the risk without eliminating the base of the problem. That is a poor class of people without a lot of other options.

And granted, some of this problem will move to other countries. What of the South American people who make a living in the drug trade? What does it do to their overall economy? Legal drugs may allow them a new cash crop helping them. But I think more money is pumped into their economy with the illegal trade than a legal one could provide. Now you've got a bunch of new people pissed off at the US and ready to become the next wave of terrorists - and a lot closer to us too.

27

More Confirmation

by worf in

jw
friends

here in jamaica queens new york, one of the congregations is named, rochdale congregation.

my brother-in-law went to the meeting at this congregation this past sunday and he saw that notices from the wts have been posted on the bulletin board which officially say that the wts is moving all printing operations upstate to either patterson or wallkill.

evaluating.

jws

Do you think fear of 9/11 type attacks and/or blowback from a war in Iraq might be scaring them out of New York City?

I assume with the moving of printing, the existing buildings serve no purpose to them, like office space? Would they sell all their buildings?

I would find it hilarious if some group totally the opposite of JW ideals bought the space. Like the Catholic Church, Baptists, or some televangelist.

6

Misconceptions of a "raised from birth&quo...

by Dawn in

jw
friends

having been raised as a jw - there were many things i was told and accepted as reality.

even after being df'd for some years i still kept these beliefs - it was not until i became a born again christian that i realized how narrow the view i held was.

perhaps some of you can relate to these small nuggets of the "reality of the world as seen by a jw".... * only a jw has a hope of the resurrection to look forward to when someone dies.

jws

Add to this the belief that if you left, you were going to go through all kinds of problems. You were likely to become a drug-abuser, sexually promiscuous, a thief, or any number of bad and/or illegal things. And eventually, you'd long for the good ol' JW days and seek to return - because life isn't worth living without them.

10

Trick to increase Bible Study totals?

by jws in

jw
friends

forgive me if this has been covered before and please redirect me to the topic.... i was looking over the km scan for january 2003 at http://jsefton.users1.50megs.com/kmscans.htm and noticed this on page 4:an approach that has proved to be effective with busy people is to conduct a brief bible study right on their doorstep.

when you are preparing to make a return visit, select from the january 2002 our kingdom ministry insert a presentation that fits the householder.

many of the presentations in this insert are designed to lead directly into a discussion of the require brochure or the knowledge book.

jws

Forgive me if this has been covered before and please redirect me to the topic...

I was looking over the KM scan for January 2003 at http://jsefton.users1.50megs.com/kmscans.htm and noticed this on page 4:

An approach that has proved to be effective with busy people is to conduct a brief Bible study right on their doorstep. (km5/02 p.1) Have you tried this? When you are preparing to make a return visit, select from the January 2002 Our Kingdom Ministry insert a presentation that fits the householder. Many of the presentations in this insert are designed to lead directly into a discussion of the Require brochure or the Knowledge book. Practise the presentation so that you can move smoothly from the introduction to a discussion of one of the paragraphs. Select one or two scriptures from the paragraph to read and discuss, and formulate a question with which to conclude. That will help lead into the paragraph you plan to cover on the next visit.

To me, this seems as though any return visit householder who gives them the time of day and listens to their little presentation can be called a Bible Study - if they play by a few simple rules. Is this right? The householder may not even know they are being counted as such and may have never formally agreed to a "Bible Study".

It might not add up to a lot of hours, but if I remember right, the time sheet has a slot for bible studies. I forget if it's counting people or number of times conducted. So that number can be upped for the reports and can show increase on next year's report.

I think there's another form too where you actually list out the person's name and address and keep a more detailed record. I forget all the details. Luckily I only conducted one bible study for a short time and from what I hear, he fell away - thank goodness. But this other report, if it still exists, would reflect that no more hours are being put in, just more studies because they're easier to count. They may all be 5 minutes long, but you can conduct 1/2 dozen of them in a couple of hours. What a blessing!

15

Meat In Due Season: February 2003 KM

by Stephanus in

jw
friends

thanks again to dmouse, we have more provision from the fds' table, i.e.

february's kingdom ministry.

enjoy:.

jws

Thanks for the posts, but there seems to be a couple of problems.

In February, page 5 is linked to the 2002 copy of page 5, not the 2003 copy.

Also, page 8 for May does not seem to appear.

103

France & Germany Take the Same Stance

by MrMoe in

jw
friends

http://www.cnn.com/2003/world/meast/01/22/sproject.irq.schroeder.chirac/index.html

france, germany stand firm on iraq.

wednesday, january 22, 2003 posted: 12:20 pm est (1720 gmt).

jws

Rules are rules. You break them, you pay the penalty. Period.

OK.... and correct me if I'm wrong, but if we start a war with Iraq without UN approval, then we will be breaking rules. How should we pay the penalty for our crime? Should the rest of the world rush in to attack the US and defend Iraq in much the same way the US rushed in to defend Kuwait when it was unjustly attacked? By your statement, if we attack Iraq, we deserve punishment.

I see so many people trying to see things in black and white. They see rules as absolute. You break them, you get punished. It's a convenient way to deal with things without having to face them or think about them. Unfortunately, I think I used to think that way when I was a JW. JW=saved at armageddon, non-JW=not saved. All nice and comfy and black and white.

Ah, snug lie those that slumber Beneath Conviction's roof. Their floors are sturdy lumber Their windows weatherproof. But I sleep cold forever And cold sleep all my kind For I was born to shiver In the draft from an open mind. Phyllis McGinley - 1940

But rules should not be hard and fast and we should evaluate intent and whether any harm was done a little more. What is Saddam's intent? What exactly is the US's?

16

Does Shunning Work?

by JH in

jw
friends

does shunning a person who quit going to the meetings make him want to go back?

well that's the reason why they shun people.

they think you'll go back if you're shunned.

jws

I'm not saying there isn't dissenting materials or that they haven't always been around. I just don't think that is the main reason for shunning.

My only experiences are personal. From what I know of DF'ed people or even "shunned" people, many of them don't have knowledge of "apostate" things and many of them felt guilty and ashamed and were trying to get back in. If they were a hotbed of "apostate" information, then very few, if any would try to return because they would know better.

And I do believe this information was rare and hard to come by. When I was in my teens in the early 80's, I heard about books like "30 years a WT slave" and a little later about COC. I had no clue where to find those books. It's not like amazon.com was available. I checked the bookstores in the local malls and could find nothing.

Eventually a friend taped a religious program and it had an address of a mail-order place. And in my opinion, mail-order back then wasn't exactly readily-available merchandise. That was in 1991.

It is not necessarily a logical progression that some guy or girl goes out and has sex, gets disfellowshipped, then turns "apostate".

Now a disassociated person might be in a different category (or person DFed for apostacy) because they chose to leave or dissent. But somebody who goes out and commits some vice is probably not going to become a source of dissenting information. So why make a policy of shunning these offenders? Especially when, if you don't shun them, they probably continue a loyal JW.

28

Woman Are Inferior?

by JH in

jw
friends

in the watchtower world, woman are just about nothing.

they hold no responsibilities in the congregation except cleaning the toilets and not much more.

we all know that woman are just as intelligent as men, and some could even be good elders.

jws

I also have to question what we call the Bible. The Bible as we know it is merely a collection of books and scrolls pieced together by an ancient council. There were other books rejected that even had women as heros and role models. But, they never made the final cut. Were they divinely inspired too, but weeded out by later Christians who found the books didn't fit their personal beliefs and opinions? Or were they just some random, uninspired books? (from a person who still believes in the Bible) I can't say. I think some don't belong, but others may. And perhaps some of the books we hold as sacred are not and should have been weeded out.

The women as elders brings up a good point. Not to be sexist and typecast women, but many women I know seem to lean toward the role of a nourturer (is that spelled right?). I think the cong would have probably been a much warmer, more loving place if there were women elders who had more concern for others feelings and towards helping others. Unlike men who seem to be focused on rules and punishment and wielding power. Especially in this age where much of the old physical jobs have been taken away by technology, perhaps men feel a need to wield power and show their strength in other ways.

Just for perspective, I am a man and agree with many of the comments here.

8

I've Invited The Dubbies To My Home!

by SpannerintheWorks in

jw
friends

yes, i have invited one of my wife's (jw) "friends" over this sunday!

i have been informed by my wife that xxx is "really nice".

"yes", i replied, i am sure that many atheists are "nice" also.

jws

If it was me I would put on my best face, and kill them with kindness.

Probably a good idea. Every time I meet a JW doesn't mean it's time to start a confrontation with them, just as every time they meet me they don't start forcing their views on me. One of the things they are taught is that life is miserable without the religion. The more you can show that you're perfectly happy and stable and unconfrontational, the more it confuses them.

Now if they come knocking on my door wanting to discuss their literature, then the stage is set to let them have it. But in a social situation, as fun as it is to get them on the ropes, it may not be the polite thing to do.

13

Is YOUR Conscience A Reliable Guide For Living?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

no, its is most certainly not a reliable guide!.

well, according to the wtbts it's not, anyway.. back in my witnessy days, the public talk entitled: "is your conscience a reliable guide for living?

" majored on man's totally inability to do anything remotely good of his own accord.

jws

I don't think one's conscience is necessarily reliable. Each person is different and sometimes feelings of wrongdoing can be programmed right out of your conscience.

Take for instance simple things. Let's say when you first started driving, you were maybe conscious of the speed limit and maybe felt concerned or guilty when you went a mile or two over. Then, you discovered nothing happened when you were driving 5mph over. So now your conscience is saying "that's OK". Nowadays when the speed limit is 55, but you're driving 70 to keep up with traffic and don't feel bad about it, what happened to your conscience? Is it still there telling you this is wrong?

Same goes for any other thing that you've come to accept because "everybody else is doing it".

And you've got to incorporate your upbringing into your conscience. What makes one person feel guilt may be perfectly OK elsewhere. Does that mean one is wrong or living a bad life? In Germany, many public beaches are nude and people walk around with no guilt or shame. Yet here in the US, people's consciences tell them it's wrong or it's a sin to be nude in the company of the opposite sex (except spouses). Or, switching it around, in Afghanistan, some women's conscience may make them feel guilty if they don't wear a burka. Yet here in the US, how many women's consciences tell them that?

I think so much of what our conscience tells us is learned behavior. I don't believe that our conscience is some universal meter of right and wrong that transcends learned laws and practices. It's learned from laws and from religions and other forms of influence. And, when people talk of a Biblically trained conscience, that's exactly what it is - accepting the Bible's rules (or more likely a specific religion's rules) as the triggers for feelings of right and wrong and guilt.