Posts by jwsons

one item consistently surfaced regarding ray's assignment to write the chapter in the book, organization for kingdom preaching and disciple-making, by the title of safeguarding the cleanness of the congregation.

in the chapter, the "two witness" rule was outlined.

jwsons

quote from Crisis of Conscience (3rd edition,page130):

"By now,Ewart Chitty was no longer a member of the Body,having submitted his resignation in accord with the Governing Body's wishes."

Why ? Find more at the ending of this following link:

http://216.239.33.100/search?q=cache:LL-QqffUakgC:www.angelfire.com/home/dkmcoc/coc/cocchapter6.html+cocchapter6.html+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

jwsons

50

Update from Ray Franz

by Amazing in

jw
friends

last night, after my post regarding ray franz comments of bill bowen's posted statements, i received a good number of email and phone calls.

one item consistently surfaced regarding ray's assignment to write the chapter in the book, organization for kingdom preaching and disciple-making, by the title of safeguarding the cleanness of the congregation.

in the chapter, the "two witness" rule was outlined.

jwsons

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Bible vs JW 2-witness rule

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Ray Vic Franz ????

Bible vs JW 2-witness rule

Jun 8, 2002 01:00

Senior Member

United States of America
Posts: 93
Since: Jun 8, 2002 Advertisement

Excavating Jesus: Beneath the Stones, Behind the Texts
Crossan, John Dominic
~~$29.95~~$9.95

The Watchtower and its apologists keep insisting that the Bible gives them no choice but to insist on two witnesses to an act of molestation before they can do anything beyond filing a report with headquarters.

There is very clear teaching in the Bible that the two-witness principle does not apply to this type of situation. Here's the text:

23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death-the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26 Do nothing to the girl; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders his neighbor, 27 for the man found the girl out in the country, and though the betrothed girl screamed, there was no one to rescue her.
Deuteronomy 22:23-27

This is in the same book of the Bible as the two-witness principle. Let's focus on that second paragraph, 25-27. What's the situation? A woman is raped out in the country. There are no witnesses to the event. It is compared to another crime which rarely has witnesses, namely murder. Because there are no other witnesses, nobody who even could have seen it happen, or even have been close enough to hear if the woman had screamed for help, the man is to be put to death.

If the two-witness rule applied in such cases, that is, if two other witnesses besides the victim or even one other were required, it would not be possible to put the man to death for raping a woman when there are no witnesses. Contrary to the anti-biblical fantasies of the WBTS, it was not only possible, but mandatory under Old Testament law.

As Jesus said to another group of wilfully ignorant religious tyrants, so I say to the WBTS leadership: "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God."

Re: Bible vs JW 2-witness rule

Jun 8, 2002 01:31

Emperor Class
United States of America
Posts: 2534
Since: Sep 5, 2001

wow...good essay.

Consider this in addition tho: does the Scriptures say "..witnesses to the ACT" or ..."witnesses to the MATTER"?

Maybe it's only me, but I see a big difference. And that's using the NWT Bible even yet.

BEFORE YOU TRY AND REMOVE THE STICK FROM MY ARSE, REMOVE THE TELEPHONE POLE FROM YOUR OWN ARSE.

Re: Bible vs JW 2-witness rule

Jun 8, 2002 02:00

Jedi Member

Posts: 1095
Since: Jul 5, 2000

welcome, robert.

I agree with dungbeetle. Great essay. Intelligent thoughts. Here's another thought too. I've read phrases such as these: .."By his death, Christ 'released those under law." .... and.... "Chrsitians are not under the Mosiac law" over and over in wathtower literature. Yet, the watchtower will use the mosiac law scriptures to justify themselves further victimizing victims.

"Air baths are good for preventing colds.. What you do is strip naked mornings and evenings and then bob up and down for a while."~ Golden Age Feb 10 1926 31

Group air bath,anyone?

Re: Bible vs JW 2-witness rule

Jun 8, 2002 08:33

Jedi Member
Posts: 1492
Since: May 28, 2001

I concur, Robert_V_Frazier. Very good point!

Re: Bible vs JW 2-witness rule

Jun 8, 2002 10:01

Senior Member

United States of America
Posts: 93
Since: Jun 8, 2002

To Somebody:

Yep, it's definitely hypocritical to teach that as "Christians", the JW's are not under the O.T. law, yet invoke Deuteronomy every time the issue of child abuse comes up. Without a syllable about whether or to what extent O.T. law applies today.

But if they want to appeal to Moses, Moses will leave them twisting slowly in the wind!

To Dungbeetle and Blondie: Thanks for the kind words. I've been posting for a long time on the JW forum at CARM. Been lurking here quite a bit too. Glad to be here!

Re: Bible vs JW 2-witness rule

Jun 8, 2002 14:11

Senior Member
Posts: 141
Since: Mar 25, 2002

Welcome Robert....although you are not a JW, you most certainly bring salient points to the forum. Makes me think of how Jesus, as a youngster, because of his godly wisdom, gained favor in the eyes of God and 'men'. Fortunately the converse is true. People can spot unmitigated hypocrisy. Thanks for shining one more flashlight under their rock.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=29698&site=3

Edited by - jwsons on 11 October 2002 1:25:16

148

Comments from Ray Franz re Bill Bowen

by Amazing in

jw
friends

i talked at length with ray franz this afternoon regarding the following comments by bill bowen: ray franz supports the wt policy on child abuse.

he is the author of the two eye witness rule as well as the slander issue that prevents anyone from warning another of child abuse in the congregation.

it is interesting that wt is willing to fight to the last man standing for a policy that in large part was founded by their biggest apostate.

jwsons

The 2 eye witnesses ? I thought someone already talked about it clearly : It's wrong

Should I say about the poster of this quote ? No, Just keep him like the way he wants. Sorry everyone

jwsons

Edited by - jwsons on 9 October 2002 20:12:45

21

CoC on Hold for Me

by out4good3 in

jw
friends

got a copy of crisis of conscious 2nd ed.

on hold for me at a library.

will most likely be picking it up tommorrow after i get off from work.

jwsons

Mostly agree with others. First read chapter "Double Standards" (about Malawi,Mexico)

Then "1975, The Appropriate for God to Act"

And if have enough time "Point od Decision" and then the rest.

His second book interesting too. I like the chapter about blood fractions (extract from Awake) of Ray's second book.

jwsons

53

another sign of the end

by comforter in

jw
friends

sniper shootings.

these people sick.

but it shows the end is near.

jwsons

Child Abuse is another sign of last days ("having no natural affection"--2 Tim 3:1). Join United Nations for 10 years is another one ("betrayers") and more, Comforter, you can add more.

Another: fulfilment of Revelation 16:18,19 when Governing Body became 3 different sections :

Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses
Kingdom Support Services, Inc.
Religious Order of Jehovah's Witnesses

in an earthquake, which Associated Press call it "organizational shakeup" Look at here

To Others: Comforter is typical MIA (missing in action) or endangered mamal. While WacoTower and Dark Society almost dump the last days,generation etc...he stills in his position as a dinosaur !!!He He He. Protect this endangered living thing , guys and girls.

jwsons

Edited by - jwsons on 7 October 2002 15:44:27

21

Oregon Lawsuit News Coverage

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

suit targets jehovahs witnesses

benton complaint about sex abuse and church policy is said to be the first of hundreds across the u.s.. .

the setup is such that the elders are the voice of the watchtower, and the watchtower is the voice of christ.

jwsons

I think this court case only to encourage others to involve. For I imagine the court will happen as follow:

The defendant-lawyer asks "the 4,5 years old boy" (then) "Can you tell me one occasion which he abused you." The "boy" bla bla bla...Then the lawyer asks him ""Do you remember the color of your pant that time?" Answer, off course "No" (If it is "es," then "who is the witness confirms about that color?"). The defendant asks again f you can not remember the color of your pant that time, how can you remember exactly what happen, then ?"

IMHO

jwsons

11

Confusion!!!

by santacruzchick in

i'm soooo confused!!!

i grew up in the 'truth'.

about 4 years ago my parents divorced.

jwsons

Good link:

http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/

jwsons

4

GB Child Abuser?

by Borg in

i read somewhere that a member of the governing body had been accused of child abuse.

is this correct?

is there any proof?

jwsons

http://watchtower.observer.org/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=JWANDSOCIETY6

24

Would the WT society disfellowship Jesus?

by ELON14 in

jw
friends

about three weeks before i handed in my letter of disassociation (two months ago) two elders from my congregation came to my door,for the first time since my son's death (which happened 8 months earlier).i knew it wasn't a special love for me or my family that suddenly motivated them to come.for few weeks prior to that visit i was sharing the new truth about the 'truth' that i was discovering with any listening ear.

now it was obvious to me that these two elders had been sent by the body of elders to hear it themselves so it can be used against me...and hear they did.

the 'poor' elders had to stand there (they refused to come in) and listen to it all.

jwsons

((((((((((((((((((((((((Elon))))))))))))))))))))))))

You're the brother with experience in Watchtower and Awake ! And you 're excellent in resonning.

They can DF Jesus, they will DF you, but who cares. Yeh. Admire you brother.

jwsons