Posts by ABibleStudent

68

What I Saw & Heard in the Oral Argument Hearing on January 14, 2015

by ABibleStudent in

im not an attorney and i could not record the hearing, so please forgive me if i make mistakes in relating what i remember of the oral argument hearing for jane doe (i.e., candace conti) versus the watchtower bible & tract society on january 14, 2015 and the length of this post.. i arrived at the civic center/union plaza in san francisco, ca about 7:30. the area is very nice with a few homeless people sleeping in the park across from the courthouse.

it took me about 10 minutes to find the clerks office for the court on the first floor, which opened at 8:00.. once the clerks office opened, the two clerks who i talked with were very polite and helpful.

the arguments for jane doe (i.e., candace conti) versus the watchtower bible & tract society were scheduled 5th out of (i think) 8. while i was in the office a cameraman and another person for nbc arrived asking about the hearing for candace contis case.. the courtroom for the 1st appellate court is on the 4th floor and takes up most of that floor.

ABibleStudent

The following information should help anyone contact the court to determine what and where to file a request for the CD:

Court of Appeal Case # A136641

Division 3

1st District Court of Appeal

350 McAllister Street

San Francisco, CA 94102

Phone: 415-865-7300

E-mail: [email protected]

I also know that Barbara Anderson is trying to obtain a CD. Hopefully, she will post the recording of the oral arguments on her website, watcthtowerdocuments.com.

@ Still Totally ADD - Thanks for the compliments.

If you would like to help JWs to critically think for themselves, please read the thread Revise Tax Code to Protect Children from Sexual Abuse and contact your Congressional Representatives requesting that they introduce a bill to Congress. Feel free to PM me if you want to read a rough draft of the bill or to forward it to attorneys with Tax Code, legislative writing, or Constitutional Law experience.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

68

What I Saw & Heard in the Oral Argument Hearing on January 14, 2015

by ABibleStudent in

im not an attorney and i could not record the hearing, so please forgive me if i make mistakes in relating what i remember of the oral argument hearing for jane doe (i.e., candace conti) versus the watchtower bible & tract society on january 14, 2015 and the length of this post.. i arrived at the civic center/union plaza in san francisco, ca about 7:30. the area is very nice with a few homeless people sleeping in the park across from the courthouse.

it took me about 10 minutes to find the clerks office for the court on the first floor, which opened at 8:00.. once the clerks office opened, the two clerks who i talked with were very polite and helpful.

the arguments for jane doe (i.e., candace conti) versus the watchtower bible & tract society were scheduled 5th out of (i think) 8. while i was in the office a cameraman and another person for nbc arrived asking about the hearing for candace contis case.. the courtroom for the 1st appellate court is on the 4th floor and takes up most of that floor.

ABibleStudent

If you want to spend $20 for a copy of the oral arguments CD, contact the clerk of the 1st Appellate District Court. The WTBTS has already been sent their copy. If you don't want your name appearing on the case docket, you will need to ask someone to request the CD for you. http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=A136641

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

18

What to do about wife and elders

by Crazyguy in

it seams like every time i turn around i find out that the elders are trying to meet with one of my kids or are talking with them about things and of course my wife is instigating it.

if i say anything to my children she mentions something and they come running.

one of the ms's is also studying with them as well.

ABibleStudent

Use the WTBTS's doctrines against them. You are the spiritual head of your family. The elders and all JWs are not to be left alone with your children. If they (or your wife) ask why, ask them for proof that the JWs have passed a criminal backgroud check and then show them news clippings where JWs were convicted of child sexual abuse.

Best of wishes for helping your wife and children to critically think for themselves.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

16

WTS reform - is it possible?

by LoveUniHateExams in

in threads concerning islam i've consistently argued for reforming the religion.

it unfortunately has pre-enlightenment doctrines and practices, or at least there exists pre-enlightenment interpretation of koranic scripture that support such doctrines and practices.

in a lesser way, and on a lesser scale, the wts too is pre-enlightenment in a sense.

ABibleStudent

Reform - make changes in (something, typically a social, political, or economic institution or practice) in order to improve it.

What is new light? Change. The WTBTS will continues to make cosmetic changes, but I doubt it will make any meaningful changes that would involve no longer using undue influence to victimize JWs. If JWs don't want to learn doctrine, then the WTBTS will turn itself into a religious social club doing line dances or flash mobs, as long as JWs continue to donate, build/remodel KHs on prime real estate, and do what the elders tell JWs to do.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

3

Tips for bringing out the real personality

by Illuminated in

what can we do as non jw members or ex jw's to bring out the natural personality of an indoctrinated jw?.

it's mentioned by cult experts and former jw's to keep things light and stay clear of direct cult info.

it's difficult for me to do this as i generally like to dive into the deeper waters of emotions, thoughts, subjects and connect on that level.

ABibleStudent

Shots of Patron tequila might help. (humor)

As a non-Witness you are a threat to the spiritual cleanliness of a congregation, so JW's would rather prove their love to Jehovah (loyalty to the Watchtower) than be a friend to you. Also, JWs are afraid to associate with non-JWs, because another JW might see them and report back to an elder. Most JWs don't want a shepherding call.

Your best option is to make new non-JW friends and enjoy life with them. If you don't like the best option, then have you tried the following:

Create a Facebook page showing all the fun things that you are doing.
Send emails to JWs that show how whacky other dangerous cults are and include links to reputable websites like www.freedomofmind.com or www.familiesagainstcultteachings.org that they can view on their own.
Send anonymous emails to JWs about a judgment against the Watchtower for enabling and protecting a pedophile, selling off multi-million dollar property, etc with some catchy subject line.

If JWs are not afraid to associate with you, you have more options like doing fun activities or hobbies where they can meet more non-JWs, you can ask them simple questions, you can help them learn about critically thinking for themselves, and you can ask them simple questions that get them to question why they use thought-stopping platitudes.

Best of Luck to you!

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

13

Revise Tax Code to Protect Children from Sexual Abuse

by ABibleStudent in

over the last five years, i have read lots of threads complaining about the wtbts, but few threads about becoming involved to help jws to critically think for themselves so that they can decide whether to stay, change the wtbts, or fade.

i'm curious if anyone is willing to write to their political representatives like i did today?.

before someone writes that the bill that i wrote would infringe on rights of either the establishment or free excercise clause of the u.s. constitution, i already checked with a lawyer and she said that the concept sounds promising.

ABibleStudent

Hi Trailer Park Pioneer, I don't like the Watchtower either, because I think it is a dangerous cult that victimizes JWs. Even if it is a dangerous cult, I don't think that it's tax status should be revoked unless it demonstrates that it will not protect children from sexual abuse or will not stop using undue influence on JWs.

Besides if its tax status were revoked and it was dismantled, what would happen to a lot of "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) JWs? I would rather that more JWs start to critically think for themselves and heal from being indoctrinated, instead of join another dangerous cult.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

13

Revise Tax Code to Protect Children from Sexual Abuse

by ABibleStudent in

over the last five years, i have read lots of threads complaining about the wtbts, but few threads about becoming involved to help jws to critically think for themselves so that they can decide whether to stay, change the wtbts, or fade.

i'm curious if anyone is willing to write to their political representatives like i did today?.

before someone writes that the bill that i wrote would infringe on rights of either the establishment or free excercise clause of the u.s. constitution, i already checked with a lawyer and she said that the concept sounds promising.

ABibleStudent

Hi Chaserious, I hope the following excerpts from the bill answers your question.

Definitions from the bill -
(2) ADULT.— The term “Adult” means an individual who is 18-years or older and is not related to a child.
(3) AGENCY. — The term “Agency” means each authority of the Government of the United States, whether or not it is within or subject to review by another agency, but does not include—
     (A) the Congress;
     (B) the courts of the United States;
     (C) the governments of the territories or possessions of the United States;
   (D) the government of the District of Columbia.
(4) CHILD. — The term “Child” (or plural “Children”) means an individual who is younger than 18-years old.
(6) INDIVIDUAL.—The term ‘‘Individual’’ means a single human being as distinct from a group, class, or family.
(8) ORGANIZATION.—The term ‘‘Organization’’ includes more than one individual, partnership, company, corporation, association, trusts, legal representatives, or public or private organization other than an agency.
(10) REPRESENTATIVE.—The term ‘‘Representative’’ means an individual acting for or on behalf of an organization through delegated authority or distributes an organization’s message.
(13) UNDUE INFLUENCE. — The term “Undue Influence” means an act of mental, moral, physical, behavioral, informational, or emotional domination that over-comes the free will and judgment of an individual including using exhortations, insinuations, flattery, trickery, deception, coercion, duress, inducement, or using behavioral, information, thought, or emotional manipulation techniques.;

Inserting in 26 U.S. Code Section 501 after subsection (s) -
‘‘(t) Suspension of tax-exempt status of non-compliant organizations”;
      “(1) In general —The exemption from tax under subsection (a) with respect to any organization described in paragraph (2), and the eligibility of any organization described in paragraph (2) to apply for recognition of exemption under subsection (a), shall be suspended during the period described in paragraph (3).”;
     “(2) Suspension of tax-exempt status - To carry out the purpose of this sub section the Secretary shall:”;
            “(A) Establish an advisory board described in paragraph (3) to assist in promulgating regulations from requirements in paragraph (4),”;
            “(B) Promulgate regulations from requirements in paragraph (4)”;
            “(C) Create cost-effective internet tools, database, or solutions including submitting documentation in digital formats to facilitate individuals filing complaints against a tax-exempt organization,”;
            “(D) Investigate complaints against a tax-exempt organization that does not comply with a requirement in paragraph (4),”;
            “(E) Adjudicate valid complaints collectively when feasible to reduce costs against a tax-exempt organization that does not comply with a requirement in paragraph (4),”;
      “(4) Requirements — An organization or representative of the organization shall:”;
            “(A) Proactively implement effective child protection policies and practices, including:”;
                  “(i) Promote to an individual to immediately report all felony crimes to law enforcement, and before reporting to an organization’s legal department.”;
                 “(ii) Require that all adults, who participate in an activity sanctioned by an organization and who might work with, hold a position of authority over a child, supervise, or be alone with children must pass a criminal background check and complete sexual abuse awareness training that meets requirements approved by the Secretary.”;
                 “(iii) Require that all parents, whose children are participating in activities that are sanctioned by an organization, are given sexual abuse awareness information that meets requirements approved by the Secretary.”;
            “(B) Immediately report suspected child abuse to law enforcement by at least identifying the victim and how to contact the victim.”;
            “(C) Shall not use nor promote using undue influence on a member or an employee of an organization.”;
            “(D) Shall not promote prejudice or bigotry based on race, gender, sexual orientation, religious beliefs, and physical or mental disabilities to members or employees of an organization.”;
           “(E) Shall not incite hatred or civil unrest based on race, gender, sexual orientation, religious beliefs, and physical or mental disabilities.”;
      “(5) Exemption — If an organization or a representative does not organize, promote, nor endorse any activities that would allow an adult to unduly influence a child, it is exempt from complying with the requirements in paragraph 4(A) and must notify the Secretary that it is exempt from complying with the requirement.”;

I'm working with Barbara Anderson and Kathleen Conti to use Linkedin and the Linkedin Group Advocates to Protect Children from Maltreatment [ https://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=6784497&trk=groups_item_detail-h-logo ] to connect with other advocates and politicians and their staff.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

68

What I Saw & Heard in the Oral Argument Hearing on January 14, 2015

by ABibleStudent in

im not an attorney and i could not record the hearing, so please forgive me if i make mistakes in relating what i remember of the oral argument hearing for jane doe (i.e., candace conti) versus the watchtower bible & tract society on january 14, 2015 and the length of this post.. i arrived at the civic center/union plaza in san francisco, ca about 7:30. the area is very nice with a few homeless people sleeping in the park across from the courthouse.

it took me about 10 minutes to find the clerks office for the court on the first floor, which opened at 8:00.. once the clerks office opened, the two clerks who i talked with were very polite and helpful.

the arguments for jane doe (i.e., candace conti) versus the watchtower bible & tract society were scheduled 5th out of (i think) 8. while i was in the office a cameraman and another person for nbc arrived asking about the hearing for candace contis case.. the courtroom for the 1st appellate court is on the 4th floor and takes up most of that floor.

ABibleStudent

Although I do agree with collecting information to send to attorneys to build cases against the WTBTS, I would recommend that people send documentation and information to someone like Barbara Anderson for the following reasons:

She already has established relationships with several law firms and would be able to distribute the information to more than one law firm,
She is already considered an expert of the WTBTS,
She would be able to translate the cult speak of the Watchtower for attorneys to present as evidence, and
She would be able to filter and prioritize the information for attorneys so that they could focus on presenting the evidence.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

13

Revise Tax Code to Protect Children from Sexual Abuse

by ABibleStudent in

over the last five years, i have read lots of threads complaining about the wtbts, but few threads about becoming involved to help jws to critically think for themselves so that they can decide whether to stay, change the wtbts, or fade.

i'm curious if anyone is willing to write to their political representatives like i did today?.

before someone writes that the bill that i wrote would infringe on rights of either the establishment or free excercise clause of the u.s. constitution, i already checked with a lawyer and she said that the concept sounds promising.

ABibleStudent

@JHK - Thanks for the compliment.

@ MeanMrMustard and Phizzy, Either the bill would contain definitions like for "Promote" (see in quotes below) or the Secretary would promulgate regulations and define words for those regulations. The bill also contains wording that the Secretary would create a volunteer advisory board (see in quotes below) to only help in promulgating regulations.

Like I wrote in the initial post to this thread I would very much like input from attorneys with Tax Code, legislative writing, and Constitutional Law experience to review this bill before being introduced to the 114th Congress to correct any legal and Constitutional errors in it.

On page 7, Lines 4-9 in the Definitions of the proposed bill -
(9) PROMOTE.—The term ‘‘Promote” means any activity that distributes a message from an organization or its leaders through its representatives or channels of distribution to a member or employee with the intent to influence an individual to change their thinking to conform to such organization’s message.

On page 5, Lines 11-16 in the Findings Section of Congress of the proposed bill -
(15) An advisory board of volunteers composed of individuals with experience advocating to protect children from sexual abuse or protect individuals from undue influence, and preferably an equal number of individuals representing tax- exempt organizations will ensure a balanced source of current and relevant information to advise the Secretary when promulgating regulations to implement this Act;

On Page 10, Lines 3-6 of the proposed bill to amend 26 U.S. Code § 501 -
"(A) Establish an advisory board described in paragraph (3) to assist in promulgating regulations from requirements in paragraph (4),”;

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

13

Revise Tax Code to Protect Children from Sexual Abuse

by ABibleStudent in

over the last five years, i have read lots of threads complaining about the wtbts, but few threads about becoming involved to help jws to critically think for themselves so that they can decide whether to stay, change the wtbts, or fade.

i'm curious if anyone is willing to write to their political representatives like i did today?.

before someone writes that the bill that i wrote would infringe on rights of either the establishment or free excercise clause of the u.s. constitution, i already checked with a lawyer and she said that the concept sounds promising.

ABibleStudent

Thanks Athanasius for the compliment.

About five days ago I asked several people to review it and forward it to attorneys with tax code, legislative writing, and Constitutional Law experience. Steven Hassan forwarded it to attorneys Alan Scheflin, Marci Hamilton, Carissa Phelps, and Paul Grosswald within a day of receiving my email, but did not expect a quick response.

I have already thanked Steven Hassan for helping me, and I would like to do a plug for Steven Hassan's books by posting information that was at the bottom of his email to me. JWs who want to learn how to help their JW family and friends to critically think for themselves, now have options to learn from Steven Hassan's books from their computers, tablets, phones, and music devices.

As of August 1st, 2014, the rights to my first book, Combating Cult Mind Control, are now mine. I am busily working on updating it and releasing it officially as an e-book, audiobook, and paperback, due out March 8th 2015.
My latest book, is in a new updated, 2nd edition. Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs is available on Amazon.com and other online booksellers as paperback and e-book http://freedomofmind.com/Media/bookFreedom.php

Today I started an email campaign to ask Congressional Representatives as well as organizations who might be interested. I don't anticipate many ex-JWs/JWs will get involved writing to their political representatives.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert