Posts by ABibleStudent

18

I'm the one who needs to "come to his senses" ?????

by Phizzy in

i was in conversation a few weeks back with a jw i have known for at least four decades.

most of it was catching up on family stuff, he has loads of kids, some have married and produced sprogs since i left.

all news to me.. i demolished a couple of his fatuous arguments, and then he decided to scuttle away, throwing this over his shoulder as he went :.

ABibleStudent

stuckinarut2 - Great reply Robert...yet you know that the standard reply from witnesses is
"I don't need to research or debate these things, as the Governing Body has done that FOR me!"

As Outlaw showed it could be talking to a wall, but then again little seeds of doubt may some day grow.

If you said in a tone and body language of trying to help them with their sales pitch, how would JWs respond to the following:

"So, if the end is soooo soon and the need is so great, why would you bring reproach on the Watchtower by behaving like a hypocrite? If you ask non-JWs to keep an open mind then non-JWs will expect you to keep an open-mind and independently research the Watchtower using public news reports.
For instance, how do you plan to convince a non-JW that the Watchtower doesn't enable and protect pedophiles, when the Watchtower instructs JWs not to bring reproach on the Watchtower? Are you going to lie or deceive them? How would you feel if someone lied to you or tried to deceive you?
How would you explain away the recent Nightline news report [you will need to have it stored on your smartphone to snow at an appropriate time] to a non-JW? If you lie or try to deceive them, most non-JWs will do their own independent research and feel that the Watchtower is a dangerous cult because you lied to them."

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

18

I'm the one who needs to "come to his senses" ?????

by Phizzy in

i was in conversation a few weeks back with a jw i have known for at least four decades.

most of it was catching up on family stuff, he has loads of kids, some have married and produced sprogs since i left.

all news to me.. i demolished a couple of his fatuous arguments, and then he decided to scuttle away, throwing this over his shoulder as he went :.

ABibleStudent

Phizzy - "You want to get your head right, and get back in quick!". I could not reply, but shook my head in dissent so that he could see.

How would your friend respond to, "Why are you convinced that my thinking is wrong? (wait for a response) If you will not independently research the Watchtower's history and doctrines and critically think for yourself,, how will you prove to the other 99.99% of people on Earth that they are wrong about the Watchtower being a dangerous cult?"

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

28

For all still in.... fakers. Help.

by Sofia Lose in

am i alone in this feeling?

i wish i could muster the cojones needed to tell my husband "i want a divorce, move away, not be a jw anymore!".

i find myself screaming these same words over and loud inside my mind, several times a day, and yet on the outside my actions could not be more opposed to these inner feelings.. sometimes i worry that this internal conflict will cause me to go crazy.

ABibleStudent

Sofia Lose - It would hurt me emotionally to know that he lost it all because of me, so I continue to gang in there.

Welcome Sofia Lose , Instead of focusing on what your husband would lose, ask what would your husband and you gain? How does doing more for the WTBTS and being whipped to do more benefit you and your husband? There will be no WTBTS Armageddon and there will be no WTBTS paradise Earth.

You have lots of options. All you need to do is do some research, critically think for yourself, free your mind from the WTBTS's BITE control manipulation, and make your plans for a better future. If you need help, post more threads about what you are thinking or planning, and read information by cult-exit counselors like Steven Hassan (i.e., "Combatting Cult Mind Control", "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves", and (his latest book) "Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults, and Beliefs"), visiting his website www.freedomofmind.com, or watching his videos like Strategic Interactive Approach explained 2003 (1:23:23).

Best of wishes to you and your husband.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

91

Epic Discussion ( Confrontation ) with JW Cart People about WT Child Abuse

by flipper in

so i had about had enough of reading jw's excuses online about wt child abuse and the candace conti nightline abc video about her case.

this is a really deep burning topic to me as i'm sure it is to many of you.

so today the gloves came off.

ABibleStudent

Cofty - They asked.

Hi Cofty, So, don't tell!

Technically according to flipper, the old man said, " You are probably an apostate too ! " That is why I thought the old man was using it as a thought-stopping platitude. I only suggested a possible way of using scriptures and the WTBTS's own words to overcome the old man's use of a thought-stopping platitude.

I liked flipper saying he has JW relatives and questions to reduce initial tensions and suspicions. Once flipper handed out printouts of information, it probably triggered the old man's cult persona. I wonder if a tablet or smartphone with bookmarks to information might be less threatening than carrying printouts.

If it was me, I would probably not have printed anything out and just ask JWs simple question(s), like " If you suspected a non-JW committed child abuse, would you report the crime to the police? Why does the Watchtower direct JWs not to report child abuse to police by JWs?" If they insisted that the WTBTS doesn't do that, I would show them the NIghtline video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iUHy82un-4 on my smartphone.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

91

Epic Discussion ( Confrontation ) with JW Cart People about WT Child Abuse

by flipper in

so i had about had enough of reading jw's excuses online about wt child abuse and the candace conti nightline abc video about her case.

this is a really deep burning topic to me as i'm sure it is to many of you.

so today the gloves came off.

ABibleStudent

Cofty - As soon as you admit you are an ex-JW it's conversation over. Either avoid the question until you have made your points or lie.

Hi cofty, I didn't say to admit that you are an ex-JW. In fact I recommend avoiding disclosing whether a person was a JW.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

91

Epic Discussion ( Confrontation ) with JW Cart People about WT Child Abuse

by flipper in

so i had about had enough of reading jw's excuses online about wt child abuse and the candace conti nightline abc video about her case.

this is a really deep burning topic to me as i'm sure it is to many of you.

so today the gloves came off.

ABibleStudent

flipper - I'm interested to know or hear of any ideas you may have for revealing this WT child abuse situation to the public and JW's themselves. See ya tomorrow ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

If you really want to protect children from sexual abuse, please read the thread Revise Tax Code to Protect Children from Sexual Abuse. If you want to read a draft of the bill that I have written to 99 Senators and 2 Represenatives about, please go to https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lbrkte086omivtt/AADN7PQHNylsdKwbltjHxBUea?dl=0. A side benefit of the aforementioned bill is that non-profit organizations would not be allowed to use nor promote "undue influence" (i.e., shunning). Members of course would be free to shun if they want to.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

91

Epic Discussion ( Confrontation ) with JW Cart People about WT Child Abuse

by flipper in

so i had about had enough of reading jw's excuses online about wt child abuse and the candace conti nightline abc video about her case.

this is a really deep burning topic to me as i'm sure it is to many of you.

so today the gloves came off.

ABibleStudent

Helping JWs to critically think for themselves is a good thing, so kudos to you flipper.

Saying, "I've never been a Witness.", when you were, IMHO less effective than helping JWs to stop using thought-stopping platitudes like, "You're an Apostate!" How would you feel about saying the following?

Why do feel that i'm an Apostate? (wait for a response)
Do you know that the definition of an Apostate is "a person who renounces a religious or political belief or principle."? (wait for a response)
Would you consider a JW an apostate for following God's two greatest commandments in Mt 22:34-40 instead of the "the lifesaving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization [that] may not appear practical from a human standpoint." [15 November 2012 Watchtower (Study Edition) page 20, paragraph 17]? (wait for a response)
If the JW says something to the affect that a JW would be an apostate, then say, "So you feel that it is better to sin and break God's two greatest commandments rather than blindly follow direction from the Watchtower as the Jews blindly followed the Pharisees and Sadducee? How can you call yourself a Christian? Aren't JWs now Apostates of following the teachings and example of Jesus Christ?

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

Mt 22:34-40 NIV
The Greatest Commandment
34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together.35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[c] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment.39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

15 November 2012, Watchtower (Study Edition), "SEVEN SHEPHERDS, EIGHT DUKES —WHAT THEY MEAN FOR US TODAY", page 20, paragraph 17 -
Elders who are reading this article can draw some useful conclusions from the account we have just considered:
(1) The most practical step that we can take to prepare for the coming attack of “the Assyrian” is that of strengthening our faith in God and helping our brothers to do the same.
(2) When “the Assyrian” attacks, the elders must be absolutely convinced that Jehovah will deliver us.
(3) At that time, the lifesaving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.
(4) Now is the time for any who may be putting their trust in secular education, material things, or human institutions to adjust their thinking. The elders must stand ready to help any who may now be wavering in their faith.

5

Trolley Dollies (Again) - With Sadness

by Joe Grundy in

at 9.00 am, saturday 14 march i was in the town centre of cheltenham, gloucestershire, uk.

a beautiful town with fine architecture.. feeling replete after a full 'english breakfast' and generally happy with life, i waited outside a bank, smoking a contemplative cigarette, whilst mu friend carried out his bank business.

there were some fine women out and about.. across the square, i noticed (no-one else seemed to) two jw literature carts.

ABibleStudent

stuckinarut2 - Why not have a VENDING MACHINE that gives out free literature instead??

I can think of two reasons. 1) The WTBTS needs to keep JWs too busy to think for themselves and doing something that they can brag about. 2) The WTBTS would rather not pay for vending machines, electricity, and possible rent when they have free labor.

I do feel sorry for the boy. I don't feel sorry for the parents, because they have the power to say "NO" to the elders.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

7

Told my JW mother about the report on Nightline!

by truthseekeriam in

even though we have agreed to not speak religion, i thought this was something she would want to see, especially because she knows the struggles we have been through because of what happened to our daughter.

after watching it she actually agreed things need to change in their policy's and that the congregation should be warned.. she also said kendrick and his wife made fools of themselves.. i have a feeling more witnesses then not would agree with her....however, how they feel and what they do about it is two very different things.

they are completely powerless in their religion!

ABibleStudent

truthseekeriam - I have a feeling more witnesses then not would agree with her....however, how they feel and what they do about it is two very different things. They are completely powerless in their religion!

I strongly disagree! The WTBTS's BITE mind manipulation techniques make JWs prisoners of their own minds.

JWs have lots of options without fading, DA'ing, or being DF'ed. JWs could stop donating money to the WTBTS, JWs could stop handing out WTBTS propaganda - throw it in the recycle bin instead - , JWs could cover-up the WTBTS QR code with a QR code for jwfacts.com or write www.jwfacts.com on propaganda that they do handout, JWs could study the Bible with new recruits instead of trying to indoctrinate them with WTBTS propaganda, JWs could stop telling elders about what other JWs are doing that would get them DF'ed, JWs could write to their Congressional representatives about revising the Tax Code to Protect Children from sexual abuse like I wrote about in the thread Revise Tax Code to Protect Children from Sexual Abuse, or JWs could write to State politicians about eliminating civil and criminal statue of limitation laws for violent crimes when "undue influence" is used like I wrote about in a Linkedin Group Discussion Uniform Third-Party Civil SOL Reform: Heal Now, Deterrence, and Justice or Punishment? . None of the aforementioned ideas would cause a JW any adverse consequences, except possibly not donating a monthly donation pledge to the WTBTS, because elders are unable to monitor all activities that a JW does.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

9

Why does the Watchtower or Scientology Get Tax-Exempt Status, They Don't Do Squat for Anyone!

by JWCartPusher in

yesterday there was a plumber asking me about the watchtower's view of charity, you know how uncomfortable we got when people asked us "why don't you help the poor or try to make the world a better place?

" finally i agreed that the watchtower is not a charity, they don't care about anyone other than their own members in new york and worldwide bethels.. can you help me locate a watchtower organization that is obedient to not only the bible but common decency, why are they getting a tax free or tax-exempt status if their not helping humanity or doing charity work?

has the watchtower done charity on a consistent basis because all that equipment at bethel (medical, dental, tv studios and professional everything is very expensive.).

ABibleStudent

JWCartPusher - Robert, if the Bible tells us to help the poor and look out after everyone, how are they obeying God by looking after their own, the Gentiles did that much themselves according to the Christ!

Hi JWCartPusher, I don't feel that the WTBTS should be a Tax-Exempt/charitable organization, even though politicians have allowed them to qualify.

I'm probably the most politically active member of JWN trying to revise the Tax Code so that the WTBTS would have to change how it treats JWs. Please read one of my threads like Revise Tax Code to Protect Children from Sexual Abuse.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert