Posts by ABibleStudent

posted

99
Please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!
by garbonzo in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!.

white house.gov petition.

http://wh.gov/er4.
ABibleStudent

Band on the Run - I truly believe some people are wearing blinders. All you can see is hatred of the Witnesses. The remedy to the WT problem is one of education. They are not criminals. If someone gave me a gun and told me to shoot someone, I am responsible. It was my choice to listen to them and pull the trigger.
Curious as to why this stirred up such passions.
Hi Band on the Run, Why do you feel that people who are for this petition hate the Witnesses? I love JWs and feel that they and their leaders are trapped by doctrines that were started by either WTBTS Presidents Nathan Knorr or Freddie Franz. I love the Constitution and will attempt to follow it as our forefathers intended our government to follow it. Why do you feel that there is only one remedy - your way - to help victims of dangerous cults? This petition does nothing more than ask politicians to add requirements to clearly define public policy for the IRS, so that the IRS can investigate claims by victims. If victim’s claims are true, the IRS can then suspend an organization’s tax exempt status for a minimum of 3 years.
Hopefully this White House petition will help educate politicians and Americans, and inspire a law to help level the playing field for JWs so that the WTBTS cannot promote shunning and marking to JWs. If JWs feel that the WTBTS is promoting policies that makes them feel intimidated or coerced then those JWs can contact the IRs to help them.
Do you read and attempt to understand what other posters write before you post? It seems to me that you have a preconceived opinion(s), you like to write that you are attorney to help substantiate your position, and your posts seem to repeat that opinion(s) over and over again like a broken record. You are not a Supreme Court Justice nor a high-level government official, so your opinion on this forum is no better than mine. To me the only good thing about you posting to this thread now is that it keeps this thread at the top of the active thread list. Your initial posts gave me ideas for writing FAQs on the Facebook page for the White House petition, but your posts now are not as useful.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
18
Not disfellowshipped, not shunned by JWs, but my Bro's Family? That's a whole different story...
by stuckinlimbo in
1. jw
2. experiences
so my niece was disfellowshipped about 18 months ago for having a worldly boyfriend who was obviously staying over at her place on a regular basis.

they now have a house together an are going strong.

her boyfriend is a nice guy.
ABibleStudent

Hi stuckinlimbo, DITTO what OnTheWayOut said. Your brother and his family are victims of mind-control. You cannot change your brother's attitude but you can change yours. Reading Steve Hassan's books may help you. If you see your brother go up to him and give him a big hug. Also, you can send your brother emails and cards with lots of pictures of you and your family having fun and inviting him and his family on outings together. Maybe in time your brother's attitude will change.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
99
Please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!
by garbonzo in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!.

white house.gov petition.

http://wh.gov/er4.
ABibleStudent

Band on the Run - I'm not certain how many threads are running now. Perhaps my posts are disappearing along the way. What is your aim with your petition? If five million people sign it, what is your goal? You need a Senator or Congressperson willing to introduce a bill, votes, and enough political heft to move any bill forward to the floor of each House. Next, you need to shepherd the bill through a conference committee.
Congress does not make law. Congress enacts laws. Without the president's signature or a veto override, the bill is not a law. It needs a presidential signature. Next, you must fight off legal challenges to such a bill. The First Amendment is taken very seriously. Remember the Mayflower Pilgrims perilous journey to the new world to have religious freedom.
We don't have ballot initiatives on the federal level.
I truly don't mean to be cruel but it boggles my mind. Go for the gusto.
Hi Band on the Run, My major objectives are to be able to look at myself in the mirror everyday and not be ashamed at who I see, and to educate and raise the awareness level of politicians and Americans about the harm done by dangerous cults (as defined by Steve Hassan). I feel disappointed that politicians are more concerned about talking about victimless issues, such as gay marriages, that is not as important as helping victims of dangerous cults. If the President signs a law that is inspired by this petition, I would probably have a heart attack. Just kidding.
I am aware of most of the major challanges that need to be overcome before the President would be able to sign a law, so you do not need to continually repeat yourself because I have read, understand, and remember your previous posts. If I choose to continue to promote a White House petition, it is because it is just one part of what I am trying to accomplish.
Band on the Run - May I ask how a VAT was added as a topic in this thread? All lawyers and accountants is a lot of people.
You need to read my posts more carefully. I was responding to james_woods' question to me and I wrote "All religions, non-religious tax exempt organizations, tax lawyers, and tax accountants to name a few special interest groups".
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
99
Please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!
by garbonzo in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!.

white house.gov petition.

http://wh.gov/er4.
ABibleStudent

james_woods - Robert, I think your motivation is good - but I was just pointing out why I think this effort is a futile one.
Why not expand the effort into a petition to tax all religious organizations the same as any other business?
Hi james_woods, I know that there are lot of obstacles to overcome. Band on the Run pointed out several good obstacles that I am already considered and I know of more, such as Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Mormon. My problem is I have to look at myself in the mirror everyday and I do believe in a loving Father in Heaven, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit - not Jehovah as taught by JWs.
BTW you and botchtowersociety did not write anything offensive in your posts to me. I am only writing this because I did truly read and consider everything that people have posted on threads promoting the White House petition. Your and botchtowersociety's posts did inspire me to write the following FAQ on the Facebook page for the White House Petition:
"Why should I care about other Americans who are victimized by dangerous cults? I have several reasons. It could have happened to me or someone, who I love. People do not join dangerous cults. Dangerous cults target vulnerable people (i.e., people with few friends, immigrants, strong social ties, children, etc.) to recruit. An organization can slowly transform into a dangerous cult because of changes or turmoil in top management. A member’s social ties with other members of an organization may affect a person’s perceptions until it is too late to leave without severe consequences. Depending on the dangerous cult, some members may be victimized to an extent that places additional burdens on social services and increases government costs."
Which do you feel would be easier, promoting additional requirements for tax exempt organizations, eliminating tax exemptions for all religious organizations, or replacing the income tax with a national retail sales tax? Answer: fewer people would be against adding requirements for tax exempt organizations. All religions would ban together to fight eliminating tax exemptions for religious organizations. All religions, non-religious tax exempt organizations, tax lawyers, and tax accountants to name a few special interest groups would be against replacing the income tax with a national.
I personally would prefer a national retail sales tax if it could be slowly phased in so that the economy was not adversely affected by the change. I may not be an accountant nor a lawyer, but I do try to research and realistically evaluate my options before I decide on what to do.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
99
Please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!
by garbonzo in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!.

white house.gov petition.

http://wh.gov/er4.
ABibleStudent
Thanks a million to the 80 people who have signed the White House petition "Protecting Americans from Dangerous Cults: Modify USC Title 26 § 501 Tax Exemption Requirements.
I want to thank Steven Unthank for encouraging me to use Facebook to promote the White House petition, and to thank ProdigalSon on JWN and Aida on JWSF for linking to the petition on their Facebook accounts. I want to thank everyone who has posted on this thread and the following two threads:
- http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/politics/225023/4/URGENT-Please-Sign-White-House-Petition-to-Protect-Americans-from-Dangerous-Cults-Modify-USC-Title-26-c2a7-501-Tax-Exemption-Requirements
- http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/scandals/225068/1/New-US-Government-Petition-re-Cults-and-Tax-Exemptions
Also, I specifically want to thank JWN members JeffT, Band on the Run, New Chapter, james_woods, and botchtowersociety for your comments on this and/or the aforementioned threads. I may not like what you wrote in your posts, but you are free to write your opinions and I would defend your right. You 5 more than anyone else gave me information that I used to create the questions in the FAQ section and the motivation to create a Facebook page.

I published my first Facebook page today. The page is a work in progress and I would appreciate any comments about how to improve the message on the page. The page briefly describes the petition, where to go for additional information, and FAQ type questions to help people to overcome their objections to sign the petition. The link to the Facebook page is http://www.facebook.com/pages/Protecting-Americans-from-Dangerous-Cults/264002310365016 .
Even though it is unlikely that 25,000 people will sign this petition before May 26, 2012, I want to be prepared to do a better job of promoting a similar White House petition the following day.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
58
New US Government Petition re: Cults and Tax Exemptions
by mind blown in
1. watchtower
2. scandals
this is on the official us government site.. note: someone was under the impression this was unconstitutional and it wouldn't pass, however, steven unthank replyed that tax exempt status (re: usc title 26 501 tax exemptions requirements) is not a constitutional right and can indeed be regulated by the us government through the irs.

freedom of religion does no mean freedom from tax.

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/protect-americans-dangerous-cults-modify-usc-title-26--501-tax-exemptions-requirements/zhpbvhfx.
ABibleStudent
Thanks a million to the 80 people who have signed the White House petition "Protecting Americans from Dangerous Cults: Modify USC Title 26 § 501 Tax Exemption Requirements.
I want to thank Steven Unthank for encouraging me to use Facebook to promote the White House petition, and to thank ProdigalSon on JWN and Aida on JWSF for linking to the petition on their Facebook accounts. I want to thank everyone who has posted on this thread and the following two threads:
- http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/225398/1/Please-sign-the-petition-to-remove-tax-free-status-from-religious-cults-that-shun
- http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/politics/225023/4/URGENT-Please-Sign-White-House-Petition-to-Protect-Americans-from-Dangerous-Cults-Modify-USC-Title-26-c2a7-501-Tax-Exemption-Requirements
Also, I specifically want to thank JWN members JeffT, Band on the Run, New Chapter, james_woods, and botchtowersociety for your comments on this and/or the aforementioned threads. I may not like what you wrote in your posts, but you are free to write your opinions and I would defend your right. You 5 more than anyone else gave me information that I used to create the questions in the FAQ section and the motivation to create a Facebook page.
I published my first Facebook page today. The page is a work in progress and I would appreciate any comments about how to improve the message on the page. The page briefly describes the petition, where to go for additional information, and FAQ type questions to help people to overcome their objections to sign the petition. The link to the Facebook page is http://www.facebook.com/pages/Protecting-Americans-from-Dangerous-Cults/264002310365016 .
Even though it is unlikely that 25,000 people will sign this petition before May 26, 2012, I want to be prepared to do a better job of promoting a similar White House petition the following day.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
67
My mother is trying to indoctrinate my 4 year old and I do not know what to do
by jwfacts in
1. jw
2. experiences
my mother lives a plane trip away from me, so does not get to spend very much time with zac.

however, she is in sydney for 3 weeks and has been babysitting.

i knew that she would be talking about jehovah, but was very annoyed yesterday when zac said my mother was speaking all day about jehovah, such as how he made the stars.. in the past, i was not overly concerned if zac learnt about jehovah's witnesses, as i thought it would help with critical thinking skills to understand different points of view.
ABibleStudent

jwfacts - My mother now wants to start Skyping Zac. Unfortunately, my wife does not really care about what Zac believes or if he wants to be a JW. So my mother rings her when I am not around and uses her to speak to Zac. No matter what I say to Mum, I know she will still go behind my back to try to indoctrinate Zac.
Hi jwfacts, I agree with Lady Lee and undercover about your wife not supporting you. You and your wife are the parents of Zac not your mother. You and your wife need to decided on a unified position about what you both are willing to tolerate from your respective parents. Once the rules are set, do not change the rules, or allow your respective parents to break the rules, because JW relatives will try to push.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
99
Please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!
by garbonzo in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!.

white house.gov petition.

http://wh.gov/er4.
ABibleStudent

Hi ProdigalSon, you have a PM.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
99
Please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!
by garbonzo in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!.

white house.gov petition.

http://wh.gov/er4.
ABibleStudent
Jefft - OK, I'm going back on my statement about not posting on these threads. You keep telling me to ask a question, so here you go:
Why do you have such an irrationally high emotional investment in this petition? Some of us have attempted to open a dialogue about the issues it raises and you act like we want to shoot your puppy. What's your agenda? What is at stake for you personally? Why can't you set aside whatever is going on in your head for three minutes to think about the points mentioned by others?
Hi JeffT, I also have asked you questions that you ignor and did not answer in the thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/politics/225023/3/URGENT-Please-Sign-White-House-Petition-to-Protect-Americans-from-Dangerous-Cults-Modify-USC-Title-26-c2a7-501-Tax-Exemption-Requirements .
Unlike you, I will attempt to answer your questions:
1. Your first question seems very subjective and confrontational. I care about other people and do not want to see government burdened more with providing social services for JWs and members of other dangerous cults. I cannot understand why you and at least two other posters are behaving the way you are, and in my opinion started using confrontation words/sentances first (i.e.," you act like we want to shoot your puppy").
2. My agenda is to help empower victims of dangerous cults to get out of organizations, if they want to, without losing contact with their friends and family. I prefer less government to more government, but sometimes government needs to tweek laws that were enacted to address unforseen issues such as laws that created USC Title 26 § 501.
3. I have nothing to gain, in fact I have more to lose by promoting this petition.
4. This question also seems very confrontational. Were you an elder? I have spent way more than 3 minutes trying to understand points that you, New Chapter, Band on the Run, james_woods, and botchtowersociety have made. I have asked questions which you, JeffT, and Band on the Run have not answered yet. I have also written responses that included links that interested people could read to better understand my position. Since neither you, New Chapter, Band on the Run, james_woods, and botchtowersociety are Supreme Court justices nor public officials, your opinions do not reflect what the Supreme Court or what public officials would do.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
P.S. - I really do appreciate that JeffT and New Chapter continue to post on this thread, because it keeps it at the top of the active list of threads.
99
Please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!
by garbonzo in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!.

white house.gov petition.

http://wh.gov/er4.
ABibleStudent

Band on the Run - Every const'l legal commentator would be absolutely shocked if the Mormon polygamy decision is still valid law. Privacy right recognition has soared since the polygamy case. You read outdated material.
You have the right to petition the govt. The govt has no duty to respond to your petition.
This is such a waste of time. The end.
People such as you are the reason the First Amendment was ratified.
Hi Band on the Run, The polygamy decision is still valid. Being a non-attorney, I need to research issues that I do not know. FYI the Supreme Court could be hearing the case in the next few years because U.S. District Judge Clark Waddoups allowed the case of Sister Wives reality star Kody Brown and his family to continue: http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/story/2012-02-04/sister-wives-bigamy-lawsuit/52962490/1 .
Personally, if polygamist wives are not coerced, intimidated, under the influence of mind control techniques, or were under the age of conscent when married, I don't care if they are in a polygamist marriage, because the wives have freedom of choice. Members of dangerous cults may feel that they don't have a choice because they want to maintain a relationship with their family and friends, which is the point of the White House Petition. I'm trying to clearly define public policy without infringing on 1st Amendment rights of individuals and not allowing an organization's rigths to be superior to an individual's rights.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert