Posts by ABibleStudent

34

It's Back! . . . Round 2.

by ABibleStudent in

if you are an american citizen, please visit http://wh.gov/tfk and sign the "protect millions of americans from dangerous orgs: modify usc title 26 501 tax exemption requirements" petition that i created on june 1, 2012 on the white house website.

i assume that only americans can sign this petition, but i do not know.

it takes about 2 minutes to register and sign the petition.

ABibleStudent

JeffT - The answer to all four questions is "I don't know." It was a hypothetical.
I hope that readers of this thread will better understand what the White House petition is trying to accomplish, and that it would be very difficult for a law inspired by this petition to adversely affect an organization that does not use coercion; intimidation; and Behavioral, Information, Thought, and Emotional (BITE) control techniques on its members.
What would make it difficult?
Just out of curiosity, does Steve Hassan know you're referencing his work as support for this?

Hi JeffT, Thank you again for continueing to ask me questions about the White House petition.

Are you asking for more information about how it would be very difficult for a law inspired by this petition to be used by the government to persecute some religions instead of others? I feel that organizations would be protected from government presecution by promoting freedom of religion and speech to its members. If members do not fear their organization, no member will file complaints with the IRS. No complaints: no IRS investigation and no presecution.

I did write an email to Steve Hassan using his website's contact form about the 1st White House petition. I plan to write him again today (along with contacting other websites) to support the 2nd White House petition.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

34

It's Back! . . . Round 2.

by ABibleStudent in

if you are an american citizen, please visit http://wh.gov/tfk and sign the "protect millions of americans from dangerous orgs: modify usc title 26 501 tax exemption requirements" petition that i created on june 1, 2012 on the white house website.

i assume that only americans can sign this petition, but i do not know.

it takes about 2 minutes to register and sign the petition.

ABibleStudent

JeffT - Robert, consider this example.
Assume your idea is accepted and the IRS is authorized to revoke tax exempt status for churches that don't promote "freedom of expression" or whatever.
The United Church of Christ, and the Presbyterian church (among others) now allow the ordination of gay and lesbian ministers. Lets say some homophobic members are expelled for stating that they believe this practice is contrary to scripture. They complain to the IRS, pointing out that they were not disruptive etc, they just openly and forcefully discussed their oppostion to the practice. The IRS consequently revokes the tax exempt status of these two churches.
Is this what you want?

Hi JeffT, Thank you for commenting on this thread.

I hope that readers of this thread will better understand what the White House petition is trying to accomplish, and that it would be very difficult for a law inspired by this petition to adversely affect an organization that does not use coercion; intimidation; and Behavioral, Information, Thought, and Emotional (BITE) control techniques on its members. Please answer the following questions truthfully:

Does the United Church of Christ and the Presbyterian Church currently expell members for disagreeing with church doctrines?
Do those churches currently promote shunning and marking to its members?
Do members of those religions shun and/or mark current and former members of those religions?
Why would complainants be very afraid of being shunned by their family and close friends as if they were dead?

According to information on Steve Hassan's website (i.e., http://www.freedomofmind.com/Media/Refuting.php and http://www.freedomofmind.com/Media/books/rtbChap2.php), I would find it very difficult to believe that mainline United Church of Christ and Presbyterian Churches use coercion, intimidation, and/or BITE control techniques on its members. If a complainant cannot prove that their organization uses coercion, intimidation, and/or BITE control techniques, the IRS should not consider the complaint valid.

Also, all complaints together would have to show a pattern of behavior that an organization was not promoting freedom of religion and speech. With the WTBTS and similar organizations, it would be easy by submitting articles from WTBTS's publications. It would be a lot more difficult for the WTBTS to prove that it was promoting freedom of religion and speech to its members, unless it announced "New Light" and actively promoted that JWs should actively associate with unrepentant members, former members, and "Worldly" people.

Do you have another scenario that you would like to discuss?

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

34

It's Back! . . . Round 2.

by ABibleStudent in

if you are an american citizen, please visit http://wh.gov/tfk and sign the "protect millions of americans from dangerous orgs: modify usc title 26 501 tax exemption requirements" petition that i created on june 1, 2012 on the white house website.

i assume that only americans can sign this petition, but i do not know.

it takes about 2 minutes to register and sign the petition.

ABibleStudent

Hi garbonzo, okage, snoozy, wha happened?, Found Sheep, ProdigalSon, Charlie brown jr., 144001, mind blown, and Kojack57 , you have PMs from me.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

34

It's Back! . . . Round 2.

by ABibleStudent in

if you are an american citizen, please visit http://wh.gov/tfk and sign the "protect millions of americans from dangerous orgs: modify usc title 26 501 tax exemption requirements" petition that i created on june 1, 2012 on the white house website.

i assume that only americans can sign this petition, but i do not know.

it takes about 2 minutes to register and sign the petition.

ABibleStudent

JeffT - Whether or not somebody makes your idea legal, I think it's WRONG.

Hi JeffT, There is nothing wrong to say that you feel that the White House petition is wrong. No one will DF or DA you on JWN for expressing your opinion. I just don't like it when people write that it is unconstitutional or that it will not work without substantiating their point of view. I will agree to disagree with you and continue to promote the White House petition.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

26

hey

by jnrtigbfxd0 in

jw
friends

hey everybody im new here.

currently a pioneer in my early 20's, started straight out of high school, now wanting to go to college and working on getting out of pioneering.

also a former bethelite, ill make a thread on that soon.. .

ABibleStudent

Welcome jnrtigbfxd0 to JWN. Have you read Raymond Franz's books (i.e., "Crisis of Conscience" and "In Search of Christian Freedom")? If you did what did you think of them?

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

10

lconvention lonliness

by independenthinker in

jw
friends

growing up i've always felt so lonely at conventions.

seeing the other kids with 2 parents to spend the weekend with always made me cry as a kid.

it was, and still is, a really lonely existence.

ABibleStudent

Hi independenthinker, I'm sorry that you feel that you must go to the DA. It is your decision.

Can you do something fun at the DA, such as leave business cards of Sparlock and the url to a youtube video. You could also leave business cards with urls of www.jwfacts.com, www.jehovahs-witness.net , www.jwnews.org, and other informative information on business cards for other JWs to read.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

16

Any hope?

by Kool Jo in

so as you may know, my parents are hardcore jw's...however, something they said to me a couple nights ago got me thinking and wondering if my parents could be awakened.... the c/o who was in town and in one of his talks, related an example of when he visited another congregation.

he stated that he asked a sister why her husband wasn't at meeting with her....the sister stated that her husband was at work...the c/o's reply..."that's a horrible excuse"!?!?!?!.

my parents found the c/o's comment disturbing...and when my parents brought up the conversation, i was surprised they said the c/o must have lost his mind...my parents stated nobody knows when the system is going to end so we still need to work and a man has the biblical obligation to cater to his family.

ABibleStudent

Hi Kool Jo, I wish you the best in awakening your parents. Have you thought of inviting them to go on some fun outings that would prevent them from attending a meeting or assembly? Is there someway to anonymously give them "Crisis of Conscience" by Raymond Franz? Can you send them an anonymous email like I wrote about in the thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/211893/1/Youe28099ve-Got-Mail-TM?

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

34

It's Back! . . . Round 2.

by ABibleStudent in

if you are an american citizen, please visit http://wh.gov/tfk and sign the "protect millions of americans from dangerous orgs: modify usc title 26 501 tax exemption requirements" petition that i created on june 1, 2012 on the white house website.

i assume that only americans can sign this petition, but i do not know.

it takes about 2 minutes to register and sign the petition.

ABibleStudent

Hi Fernando, lisaBObeesa, 00DAD, Shawn10538, blindnomore, Madge,soft+gentle, Sic Semper Tyrannis, ohiocowboy, and apostatethunder, you have PMs from me.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

11

Are the WTB&TS out of their depth with the IT age ? And is it going to be their Waterloo ?

by smiddy in

jw
friends

i`m just wondering if their stumbling from one disaster to another in their belated efforts to embrace modern technology , smart phones , the web, twitter , pc`s, you tube , social networking ,etc.etc.

is really going to be their demise in the long run .

i know they frown on higher education , but the gaffes they have made in recent years is getting beyond the joke.. ignorance can be excused to a degree , uneducated people can be excused to a degree, but plain stupidity, cannot !

ABibleStudent

i feel that the internet and smartphones will be too much for the WTBTS. According to statistical information in the article http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php on www.jwfacts.com there was a change in publishers growth rate slope around 1994, which coincides with increased internet use. Also, please remember that the WTBTS has significantly lowered its requirements to be an active publisher for its record-keeping, so the internet effect could be more severe than shown in graphs on jwfacts.com

from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet
"Commercial internet service providers (ISPs) began to emerge in the late 1980s and 1990s. The ARPANET was decommissioned in 1990. The Internet was commercialized in 1995 when NSFNET was decommissioned, removing the last restrictions on the use of the Internet to carry commercial traffic."

As long as reputable websites like www.jwfacts.com, www.watchtowerdocuments.com, www.jwnews.org, www.silentlambs.org, etc. exist and create new and balanced articles about the WTBTS, the number of active JW publishers should continue to decline, unless the WTBTS starts counting dead publishers. I wish the best to all those people, who love JWs and oppose the WTBTS.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

34

It's Back! . . . Round 2.

by ABibleStudent in

if you are an american citizen, please visit http://wh.gov/tfk and sign the "protect millions of americans from dangerous orgs: modify usc title 26 501 tax exemption requirements" petition that i created on june 1, 2012 on the white house website.

i assume that only americans can sign this petition, but i do not know.

it takes about 2 minutes to register and sign the petition.

ABibleStudent

JeffT - My opposition to this isn't based on supreme court decisions so I don't care what they say. I do not think you can accomplish your stated purpose - expanding religious freedom - by having the government enforce its version of proper religion through the tax code.

Hi JeffT, Since you do not care about Supreme Court decisions that substantiate that the IRS can revoke an organization's tax exempt status, does that mean that you have no legal reasons to object to a law that would be inspired by the White House petition?

Since the IRS would not investigate an organization until it received complaints from members, employees, and/or former membes of an organizattion in a law inspired by the White House petition, why do you feel that government would be enforcing its version of proper religion on tax exempt organizations? The White House petition only helps people of dangerous orgs to disagree with an orgs' leaders - not the government enforcing its version of religion on members.

Have you read the thread Changes in Australian legislation - likely to outlaw shunning in the future? It seems like the Aussie government has enacted a law that prevents individuals from shunning family members and friends (caveat: I have not read the law). To me the Australian law seems less workable, more expensive to enforce, and infringes on an individual's freedom of speech than a law that would be inspired by the White House petition.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert