Posts by ABibleStudent

32

I made my daughters cry last night.....

by Ugottabefresh in

...when i told them i didn't believe anymore.

they cried like i'd never seen before.

my oldest, 10, pleaded with me that she'd do anything to get me to keep going to meetings ("i'll get a's on my report card!").

ABibleStudent

Ugottabefresh - Background: still married to the kids' mother, a believer, and I consider myself a Secular Humanist so no desire to go to a different church. Too much bloodshed and bigotry in the name of god.

Hi Ugottabefresh, Would you classify your wife as "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) or "Spiritually Weak" (still thinking)? Do you love your wife? The bottom line is do you feel that your wife loves you more than the WTBTS or less?

If your wife is "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking), don't say anything more to your family about your feelings towards the WTBTS. As long as you pretend to blindly follow the WTBTS, you may be able avoid being DF'ed. Do not DA yourself if you want to successfully fade from the WTBTS with your family.

Vent your feelings on JWN and ask for advice about how you can help your family critically think for themselves.

Make your plans about how to fade from the WTBTS with your family. Your plan should include the following:

Be patient and compassionate towards your JW family and friends, and love them unconditionally by showing them all the time and in everyway possible. Let them discover TTATT on their own.
Do as much independent research of the WTBTS as possible by visiting reputable websites like www.jwfacts.com and www.freedomofmind.com and reading books by Raymond Franz ("Crisis of Conscience" and "In Search of Christian Freedom"), Don Cameron ("Captive of a Concept"), and by cult experts like Steve Hassan.
Ask your JW family members simple questions to learn more about how you can encourage their authentic persona's to become stronger. Learn how to ask questions like Billy the Ex-Bethelite did in the thread exJW Psychology 102--How to Ask a Question When Questions Aren't Allowed to slowly plant seeds of doubt in your family. Be patient when planting seeds of doubt. When your wife asks you questions, encourage her to do her own independent research and that you are willing to listen to her opinions without judging her.
Encourage your children to critically think for themselves. Read other threads on JWN about members helping their children to critically think for themselves such as the Thankyou dad, for making me think... by Aussie Oz.
Encourage your children to meet non-JW children, to make play dates with non-JW children who have parents that you and your wife may share common interests.
Take your family on fun outings where they will meet non-JWs who they may share common interests.
Encourage your family members to become involved in time consuming hobbies that they love and will take time away from WTBTS activities.
Obain more education/training to qualify for a better paying career. This will also allow you to attend less meetings and FS. If your wife asks you why, just tell her because the WTBTS does not know when the Big "A" will come, and you love your family and want the best for them.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

32

I made my daughters cry last night.....

by Ugottabefresh in

...when i told them i didn't believe anymore.

they cried like i'd never seen before.

my oldest, 10, pleaded with me that she'd do anything to get me to keep going to meetings ("i'll get a's on my report card!").

ABibleStudent

Welcome Ugottabefresh, I'm sorry for the pain that you felt, but you can help your children to critically think for themselves and achieve their full potential free of the WTBTS. Are you married? Do you have custody of your children?

If you have custody of your children, encourage them to make more non-JW friends, do fun activities with them where they will meet more non-JWs, and teach them how to critically think for themselves. If you haven't read books by cult-exit counselors, I would recommend that you read Steve Hassan's books (i.e., "Combatting Cult Mind Control", "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves", and (his latest book) "Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs"), visit his website www.freedomofmind.com, and watch his FREE videos on his website.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

324

Is this new donation arrangement for real?

by nugget in

just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

ABibleStudent

What major WTBTS change(s) do you predict for 2014?: ABibleStudent - My premise is that the WTBTS is a business, a dangerous cult, and that its printing operations are losing money. I feel that the WTBTS will either start to require that JWs tithe at least $2/wk/publisher in G20 countries (~ $400 million/yr of income), and/or only print the simplified edition Watchtowers/Awake! propaganda.

It seems that the WTBTS will be implementing mandatory tithing in 2014. One prediction may be complete. One to go for 2014.

Considering that the WTBTS has promoted over the last 80 years that JWs not have children, JWs not get married, discouraged JWs from obtaining a college education to qualify for a better paying career, and/or promoting that JWs purchase internet devices for FS, publisher numbers should be peaking by 2016 and falling rapidly there after unless the WTBTS changes qualification criteria for publishers or reduces its burden on JWs. According to the Pew Report (http://religions.pewforum.org/reports/), “ Jehovah's Witnesses have the lowest retention rate of any religious tradition. Only 37% of all those who say they were raised as Jehovah's Witnesses still identify themselves as Jehovah's Witnesses." I doubt that the WTBTS will be successful recruiting more non-JWs with reputable websites like www.jwfacts.com, www.freedomofmind.com, www.watchtowerdocuments.com, www.jwsurvey.org, and www.freeminds2.org.

Therefore, I wonder if the WTBTS is purposely trying to cull the flock, so that it can free up a lot of real estate assets and retain a smaller and more "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) JWs to serve the WTBTS.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

130

Involved with a JW woman

by jonza in

okay so i'm dating a born-in jw woman, she's younger than me and has no kids.

i'm a christian man whos divorced with 2 kids.

we're in love and seriously want to be together.

ABibleStudent

jonza - So given that, should I still move forward with this relationship? I'm sure she will at some point want them, will I be able to keep her from taking them to a KH?

Hi jonza, If she can pass the acid test I suggested earlier, then she might be able to critically think for herself. You need to decided whether to pull off the bandaid fast with a lot of pain or slowly with incremental increases in pain. When you are together, ask her to watch Steve Hassan's video Strategic Interactive Approach explained 2003 (1:23:23). If you feel a softer approach is needed than when you are together ask her to watch the following videos in the order presented:

How Big is the Phenomenon of Undue Influence? (2:01)
NY Ethical Culture Society February 2013 (41:09)
Watch while drinking chardonay and eating chocolate covered strawberries http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIDwXYACfmM

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

324

Is this new donation arrangement for real?

by nugget in

just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

ABibleStudent

Why is anyone on JWN surprised by this WTBTS change? Does this mean that WTBTS is now becoming like other religions? I wonder how JWs will spin this new arrangement?

BTW skeeter1 I like your analysis of why the WTBTS is making the change. The WTBTS avoids taxes and has a continual flow of money.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

7

My non-JW sister & her observations and updates from visiting JW family

by Faithful Witness in

my non-jw, never been interested in even tralking about it, always avoid the topic of jw issues, came for an overnight visit this weekend.

the kids all had a blast.

she updated me with a few observations:.

ABibleStudent

Hi Faithful Witness, Your news about your parents does not sound good. It does sound like your mother's cult persona is getting stronger.

What can you do to empower your mother's authentic persona? Is her authentic personal more emotional or logical? If she is going to retire soon, does she and your father have enough money to live the way they want to? I believe that there are a few articles on the internet that say most people run out of money before they die. Help your mother's authentic persona to grow stronger by helping her to remember what she use to think of before she was indoctrinated into the WTBTS.

It might be a good segue into helping your mother's authentic persona to question how close is close. If your mother uses the end is so soon thought-stopping platitude, just ask her simple questions about explaining the new WTBTS doctrines to you, why did/were the doctrines changed, and how many times have the doctrines been changed. Just appear perplexed by the WTBTS's doctrines and try to encourage your mother's authentic persona to do more (and independent) research. Didn't Jesus Christ warn his followers about false prophets in Mt 7:15-20?

Peace be with you and eveyrone, who you love,

Robert

19

What I said to my wife

by Frazzled UBM in

all - so my wife told me she was going to the kh yesrterday.

it has been a couple of months so i was a bit disappointed but i sucked it in.

i thought about it for a while and when we had a quiet moment together i said to her: "i know you need to make an appearance every once in a while to avoid the risk of being asked to da yourself and being shunned.

ABibleStudent

Well done Frazzled UBM! A little bit of logic, a lot of unconditional and non-judgemental love, stating what the issue is and who is persecuting whom will hopefully help your wife to overcome the WTBTS's BITE control.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

16

Ding Dong . . .

by ABibleStudent in

h'mmm, it is almost 11:00 am on a wednesday.

i wonder if it is a jw.. to the best of my knowledge the following happened, but i did get a little excited during our intial conversation and what transpired later so i may not be recounting the facts correctly.. i went downstairs with my trusty sharpie in my pocket to answer the door.

at the door there was an older (~75 year-old) man in a suit and appeared to be in good health.

ABibleStudent

Hi ILoveTTATT, I feel miserable today. My face is swollen with liquid oozing from around my mouth and I have red blotching on my arms up to my armpits. Yesterday a woman rearened me while I was leaving the Costco parking lot. I must be cursed. It must be God wrecking his revenge on me for picking up the WTBTS invitations yesterday. It all started on Friday. What I'm I going to do? . . .

Just kidding about God punishing me about picking up the WTBTS invitations. My dog went through the the brush in a shady area near my home on Thursday and probaly brushed against a few poison oak plants. I came in contact with the poison oak oils by kissing my dog on his head and/or petting him. My dog is grounded from being off-leash until at least November when the poison ivy should be dormant.

It looks worse than yesterday, so I will be going to an urgent care soon. It is a lot worse living now than in the past, because of all the technological, social, and medical advances!

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

130

Involved with a JW woman

by jonza in

okay so i'm dating a born-in jw woman, she's younger than me and has no kids.

i'm a christian man whos divorced with 2 kids.

we're in love and seriously want to be together.

ABibleStudent

jonza - . . . I've also said that I have doubts about if we should be together about the WT being put first etc and again she becomes very emotional. To the point of saying, she absolutely hates religion and wants nothing to do with it at all. Again, I believe this is just her in the moment excuse to try to get me not have any doubts about being with her. I think this is part of the manipluation that's been mentioned, something I've saw in her a loooong time ago..

Hi jonza, What you have experienced is your GF's authentic and cult personas. Can you imagine how confusing your relationship would become having her switch between her authentic and cult persona? I loved my former friend's authentic persona, but did not like that her cult persona was so much stronger than her authentic persona and I did not know how to communicate with her cult persona. I have a better idea how to communicate with her cult persona now, but I would not even want her as a friend as long as she doesn't critically think for herself. Too much unnecessary drama.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

16

Ding Dong . . .

by ABibleStudent in

h'mmm, it is almost 11:00 am on a wednesday.

i wonder if it is a jw.. to the best of my knowledge the following happened, but i did get a little excited during our intial conversation and what transpired later so i may not be recounting the facts correctly.. i went downstairs with my trusty sharpie in my pocket to answer the door.

at the door there was an older (~75 year-old) man in a suit and appeared to be in good health.

ABibleStudent

@ Frazzled UBM - Thank you for reading this thread. I agree with you that it is difficult talking logically with JWs, but not impossible to plant seeds of doubts for their authentic personas to think about. I can only change how I behave and learn how to control my emotions/actions. I cannot change how JWs behave, so that is why I need to have a strategy/plan, plenty of practical experience/practise, and learn from my experiences when reverse witnessing to JWs.

My basic plan is to be polite and compassionate, ask simple questions, overcome thought-stopping platitudes, control the conversation with simple questions (such as, "Does that mean that you agree with me?" or "How do you feel when sales people don't answer your questions?" when they change subjects), look at a JWs body language to determine when they are feeling cognitive dissonance, say something that may encourage them to return, and to review what I learn to modify my plans. As you can tell from my experience, I need to practise executing my plan better.

@ Faithful Witness - You were brillant in your encounter with the elderettes! Thank you for reading this thread. To be fair to the JWs, I only picked up 5 or 6 invitations that were dislodged from a door jam or under a door mat, so the JWs were not being litter bugs. As I mentioned above, I tried to follow my plan, but was caught off-guard when the JWs were trying to confront me about picking up their invitations. Next year I will be more prepared for a confrontation if JWs question me about my actions. KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid, which refers to me) is my motto.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert