i remember a 'sister' coming up to me and telling me off for being on the atkins diet, as it was satanic and designed by satan.. chukky.
A friend said this in front of myself and two uptight elders while on the ministry, breaking a long uncomfortable silence:
"I have to do a talk about masturbation this week. [long pause] I'm reeeally glad I'm not working on 'gestures' [looks at elders for a moment then pumped his fist vigorously by way of explanation]
One elder looked shocked, one struggled very hard not to laugh. I didn't bother struggling and PMSL. :)
first of all, is there a way to keep this topic available?.
some would like to see authoritarian repressive watchtower gone, others want reform among jws now!
... "don't curse the darkness light a candle" - a chinese proverb?.
I tend to agree that you can't 'reform' the Watchtower. Everything that is unique about it is what is wrong with it - which is to say that if everything wrong with it was 'reformed', there would be nothing left, nothing unique about it and hence no reason for it to exist, and so it's membership would evaporate.
It's dying anyway. It's just dying a slow painful death. Anything that can be done to speed up that process and 'put it out of it's misery' sooner would be a merciful act for all concerned, IMO.
So I say, dissolve.
i don't want biblical answer, but from any watchtower publication.
has that question ever been answered in any watchtower publications?.
please, give me some references.. i expect answer from debator, alice, bane, scholar or any other active jehovah's witness.
Can I suggest that the vast list of - largely irrelevant - counter-questions in djeggnog's post above not be answered until he has provided full answers to the fairly simply questions in the OP. Let's stick to one question at a time - the original question, remember who asked it, what it was, and who is obliged to answer it. Let's keep it simple.
Don't fall for the JW defensive equivalent of 'squid ink' - a pointless clouding of the waters - avoiding simple questions through endless irrelevant counter questions, answers to questions that weren't asked (sleight of hand), and generally making things hopelessly and needlessly convoluted, so that - they hope - their inability to give s straight answer to a simple question goes unnoticed.
im searching and searching, but not finding what i need.
it is sown in corruption, it is raised up in incorruption.
44 it is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body.
Yes, the JW's believe that all of the 1st century Christians were of the 144,000.
Yes, in light of evidence for the the numbers of 1st C Christians, it's ridiculous to believe that 144,000 is literal.
They don't teach that the Governing Body mediate. They use scriptures which refer to the all 'anointed Christians' - the "Faithful slave" - and then with some sleight of hand totally unsupported by Scripture they pretend that the Governing Body somehow 'represents' this 'Slave Class' of all anointed Christians. Which is total hogwash, both Scripturally and practically.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skvrcnehw6k.
.
i couldn't agree more!.
See, catch an exhausted Pioneer at the right moment, out on the ministry in sub zero temps, and they might just confess how they really feel :)
in compliance with the terms of a settlement agreement, my information and research web site, http://quotes.watchtower.ca, is now "dark".
the domain "watchtower.ca" has been transferred to wts (i assume they will have it pointing to borg.org watchtower.org asap).
my copies of the site have been destroyed, the files deleted, and my wt library cd has been destroyed, in accordance with the settlement agreement which will afford a "discontinuance" of their suit against me.
Quotes was / is such a crucially important and powerful site and I presume it still survives, in some form, on the net. Please don't post any links here as I don't want to create a trail so that another mirror can be shut down by the Society. I'm sure I'll be able to to find it.
However, reassurance that mirrors do still exist would be much appreciated.
not to be construed as doctrinal in any way but: since jw's counter the trinity doctrine by saying the word trinity cannot be found in the bible i thought it might be fun looking at other examples like:.
governing body.
any one else want to add to the list?.
Disfellowshipped.
Disasociated.
Blood Transfusion.
Pioneer.
do you hate them?
do you feel bad for them?
do you not give a crap about them anymore??
I was a JW for over 30 years, from birth, so I was one of "them" as much as anyone can be.
I feel sorry for them, because I understand what it is to be one, but I am so repulsed by the mindset of a JW - it's so full of caustic judgement and fear - that I also can't stand them. They are rendered virtually retarded by Society brainwashing.
So, having anything to do with them and having discussions with them, for me, feels rather like trying to help someone who is drowning in a fetid river of manure, yet who fights and insults you as you try to help them, and insists they are "the happiest people in the world".
You want desperately to help them, but damn, up close - they stink! LOL.
following is the response of a jw to the information regarding the un/ngo status of the watchtower society.
it seems not all will see with clarity the hypocritical position of the organisation in this matter:.
andrew,.
Thanks for the welcome.
I've tried it before and it's worked. It's easy for them to make excuses when they can avoid the doctrinal weight that the Society has loaded onto the UN, but that weight comes crashing back down on them when they use the word "Beast".
Even if they refuse to do it, you can tell by the way they flush and get flustered that, even if they won't admit it, you've penetrated their armour and given them something to think about. I suppose it might also be worthwhile taking a letter, like the one in the OP, and copying it, replacing all references to UN with "Wild Beast" or suchlike and sending their own letter back to them, as a more accurate 'mirror' of their hypocritical position.
following is the response of a jw to the information regarding the un/ngo status of the watchtower society.
it seems not all will see with clarity the hypocritical position of the organisation in this matter:.
andrew,.
I find it helps to clarify things for a JW who is making all sorts of excuses for the Society's voluntary association with and service to the UN by interrupting and insisting that they stick to the Watchtower's teaching on this matter while discussing it.
Have them first read Revelation 13 and 14 regarding the mark of the Beast and penalty for receiving it. Remind them the Society teaches that the UN is the Beast, a Satanic enemy of God, and then, without any further commentary, ask them to proceed with or repeat their excuses while making an adjustment of just ONE WORD: which is, to be scripturally accurate and always refer to the UN as "The Beast", as the Society has identified it.
See how far they get before they go bright red or can't continue.
If they won't do it, ask why not, is it the Beast or is it not? If there is nothing to be ashamed of, then why is employing such Scriptural accuracy a problem?
Even the most blind and dismissive JW can find sudden clarity as they feel the creeping horror of blasphemy while saying things like "We only associated with the Beast to be able to do the preaching work better." (to function - "to buy and sell" Rev 13:17-18)
What a lot of power in just one word.
