Posts by Essan

6

Kingdom of God on Earth

by cameo-d in

so let me get this straight....jesus is coming back earth to set up the kingdom of god here, right?.

according to the scriptures, the last time he was here, he was already offered all the kingdoms of the world and he didn't take the offer.

so what changed his mind?.

Essan

Truthseeker1969, can i ask you, before God created anything, where was he?

50

Jehovah deserves to die - according to his own Law.

by Essan in

yup, that's right.. if we apply the principle from god's own law at deuteronomy 22:8, that is.. .

"when you build a new house, you must build a railing around the edge of its flat roof.

that way you will not be considered guilty of murder if someone falls from the roof.

Essan

WTWizard said: "I say, string him up"

LOL. Indeed, but we should really stick to the letter of His law. What happened to murderers? Stoning?

So, I'll meet you at the city gates with a few hefty stones and a few beers. Might as well make a party of it.

50

Jehovah deserves to die - according to his own Law.

by Essan in

yup, that's right.. if we apply the principle from god's own law at deuteronomy 22:8, that is.. .

"when you build a new house, you must build a railing around the edge of its flat roof.

that way you will not be considered guilty of murder if someone falls from the roof.

Essan

Hi Trusthseeker1969,

Thanks for your response. However, you didn't address the Scripture we're considering. You said:

"The choice to sin was Adam and Eves"

Yes, but the choice to have sin pass automatically to children was Jehovah's. This is his fault, because he designed it that way. He is responsible for his own creation - according to his own law at Deut 22:8 - and he CANNOT legitimately 'pass the buck' of responsibility to Adam. Adam is responsible for his own sin, that's all. The creator is responsible for the creation in it's entirety.

"the choice as to whether to give mankind a barrier could have been something Jehovah ignored and left us with nothing".

He did ignore it, that's the point. That's how we got into this mess, because He didn't prevent it as Deut 22:8 says he must. But I gather you are talking about the Ransom, given later.

"However the ransom sacrifice was the "barrier" he gave to all therefore saving those who chose to follow."

It's not a barrier, because millions of people died before the ransom was paid and millions have died after. It was not a barrier to suffering and death. It's already happened. It's too late. And anyway, according to the Bible those who died don't need the ransom because death eliminates their sin. So it prevented nothing. What you are really saying is that after causing untold suffering and the deaths of billions, Jehovah finally got around to trying to clean his own mess up. To little too late.

"It is exactly that freedom of choice and that freedom of will that gives us the ability to think and act as we please..."

Sorry, this is all unscriptural and simply your opinion. Paul said we are all BORN "slaves" to sin. We don't have free will, because our natures are NOT free, they are in slavery to sin, because of Jehovah's negligence.

"and lets not forget that it was made plain to Adam and Eve, the consequences of their choice to disobey."

No, you can't pass the buck like that. It was Jehovah who designed mankind so that sin and death would automatically pass to innocents. He could have done otherwise - so that only those who CHOSE to sin paid the price. But no, he chose a system far more unfair. And Deut 22:8 doesn't say that if someone commits suicide from a roof that you are excused responsibility as it's builder for failing to build a barrier as required by law. There are no loopholes.

"No loving God would ever instill in man a drone attitude to follow as that would not be a loving God."

No loving God would intentionally design a system in which innocent billions were forced to suffer and die for the sin of their parents.

"And so no Jehovah is not bloodguilty in anyway."

I'm afraid you haven't proven anything. But I respect that this is the opinion you choose to endorse.

50

Jehovah deserves to die - according to his own Law.

by Essan in

yup, that's right.. if we apply the principle from god's own law at deuteronomy 22:8, that is.. .

"when you build a new house, you must build a railing around the edge of its flat roof.

that way you will not be considered guilty of murder if someone falls from the roof.

Essan

Yup, that's right.

If we apply the principle from God's own law at Deuteronomy 22:8, that is.

"When you build a new house, you must build a railing around the edge of its flat roof. That way you will not be considered guilty of murder if someone falls from the roof." - Deut 22:8 New Living Translation.

Jehovah failed to build a "barrier" onto his creation - mankind - in order to prevent "the fall" and the deaths of billions of Adam's descendants through no choice or fault of their own. He could have done so. He didn't. Therefore he is bloodguilty, a murderer, and deserves to die. Mankind was HIS creation, not Adam's, therefore it is HIS responsibility to prevent "falls".

We can perhaps forgive Jehovah for the deaths of Adam and Eve, since they made their own choice (although Deuteronomy offers no exceptions, so I'm not sure Jehovah deserves this leniency, according to the letter of His law) but Adam's billions of descendants had no choice and no fault. It was Jehovah's design flaw. He could easily have prevented their "fall" and the totally unfair and unneccessary cascade effect of death, but he didn't.

So, he's bloodguilty and must die.

Discuss. Or not. Whatever

41

"Overlapping Generations"... one year later...

by Alfred in

wow, it's hard to believe it's already been about a year since this subject was covered in the wt study at kindgom halls around the globe... let's read it just one more time, so we don't forget just how ridiculous this sounded when we first read it.... watchtower (study edition), april 15th, 2010 issue, pages 27-29:.

"this magazine has long been used by the faithful and discreet slave as the primary channel for dispensing increased light.

... what does this explanation mean to us?

Essan

So, It's not the Generation that saw the events of 1914, after all.

It's the Generation that saw the Generation that saw the events of 1914.

OBVIOUSLY that's what Jesus meant!

LMAO.

44

False Stories

by Maze in

this was mainly referring to religious mythology.

satan is the author and orchestrator of false religion.

pauls warning about false stories is part of his first letter to timothy, a christian overseer who was charged with preserving the purity of the congregation and helping fellow believers to remain faithful.

Essan

Maze, you didn't respond to the PROOF of False Stories produced by the religion you are defending, the FAKE life stories of Witnesses who claimed that JW's came to them speaking of Christ's enthronement and Presence in 1914 when the facts from their own literature shows they were NOT proclaiming this for 1914, but for 1874.

The Society tells little but FALSE STORIES!

You are a liar and from the Mother of all liars, the Watchtower Society.

44

False Stories

by Maze in

this was mainly referring to religious mythology.

satan is the author and orchestrator of false religion.

pauls warning about false stories is part of his first letter to timothy, a christian overseer who was charged with preserving the purity of the congregation and helping fellow believers to remain faithful.

Essan

Hows this for a blatantly False story Maze?

"In the May 1, 1988 Watchtower, on page 22, a Witness, Matsue Ishii, recalls her first encounter with the Bible Students in 1928: At the back of our house in Tojo-cho, Osaka, there was a house with a sign: "Osaka Branch of the International Bible Students Association." Assuming it to be a Christian group, I visited the house. "Do you believe in the second advent of the Lord?" I asked the young man who came to the door. "Christ's second advent was realized in 1914," he answered. In astonishment, I told him that was impossible. "You should read this book," he said, handing me The Harp of God.

Yet, what does it say about this in The Harp of God? Beginning on page 235: This date, therefore, when understood, would certainly fix the time when the Lord is due at this second appearing. Applying the same rule, then, of a day for a year, 1335 days after 539 A.D. brings us to 1874 A.D., at which time according to Biblical chronology, the Lord's second presence is due. . . . The searcher for truth can find an extensive treatment of this question in Volumes 2 and 3 of Studies in the Scriptures .

Another long-time faithful Witness, Jack H. Nathan, recalls his first meeting with the Bible Students: After the war ended in 1918, there was no work available in England, so I rejoined the army and went off to India as part of the peacetime garrison. In May 1920 the malaria flared up again, and I was sent up into the hills to recuperate. There I read all the books I could get my hands on, including the Bible. Reading the Scriptures intensified my interest in the Lord's return. Months later, down in Kanpur, I started a Bible study group, hoping to learn more about the Lord's return. It was there that I met Fredrick James, a former British soldier who was now a zealous Bible Student. He explained to me that Jesus had been present since 1914, invisible to man. This was the most thrilling news I had ever heard." --The Watchtower, 1 September 1990, page 11 This fellow's recollection is also not supported by the Society's doctrinal history. His own account placed his experience in or about the year 1920, more than a decade before the Society switched their official doctrine of 1874 to 1914."

(jwfacts)

32

Most recent Society lies about 1914?

by Essan in

as i'm sure we all know, the society has lied repeatedly in the past about what they preached regarding 1914 in the run up to that year, claiming that what was preached was that jesus was to become king in that year and his presence was to begin then etc, when in fact they were preaching that all this had already happened in 1874 and that the end of the world would come in 1914.. .

but does anyone know if they have repeated this lie about what they supposedly preached recently?

when was the last time they claimed this?

Essan

Thanks Mad Sweeney. :)

I hope you can find it.

32

Most recent Society lies about 1914?

by Essan in

as i'm sure we all know, the society has lied repeatedly in the past about what they preached regarding 1914 in the run up to that year, claiming that what was preached was that jesus was to become king in that year and his presence was to begin then etc, when in fact they were preaching that all this had already happened in 1874 and that the end of the world would come in 1914.. .

but does anyone know if they have repeated this lie about what they supposedly preached recently?

when was the last time they claimed this?

Essan

Yes it was a lie. If you can't see that then you are a blithering moron, or as much of a liar as they are.

The Society claimed they were preaching Christ's Presence and Kingship as beginning in 1914 ahead of time - before 1914.

They were not. They didn't teach this until at least 1930. They were teaching - as fact - another date entirely for these events: 1874.

Hence, it's a lie. Get it? All your subsequent extensive wafflings don't change that nor will they be allowed to cloud the issue or distort the obvious fact that the Society LIED.

Sorry to be blunt, but I don't have much patience for defenders of lies and liars when the case is so thoroughly clear cut and beyond legitimate dispute.

32

Most recent Society lies about 1914?

by Essan in

as i'm sure we all know, the society has lied repeatedly in the past about what they preached regarding 1914 in the run up to that year, claiming that what was preached was that jesus was to become king in that year and his presence was to begin then etc, when in fact they were preaching that all this had already happened in 1874 and that the end of the world would come in 1914.. .

but does anyone know if they have repeated this lie about what they supposedly preached recently?

when was the last time they claimed this?

Essan

Hi :)

I have a further question for the really informed researchers among you.

I know- because I have read it very recently - that the Society has falsely claimed that the Bible Students proclaiming ahead of time that Jesus would become King and be Present from 1914 (which they didn't) was "remarkable evidence that Jehovah was using them".

Or at least, the wording was similar to that.

But try as I might I can't locate that quote or any like it where they specifically claim that heralding 1914 ahead of time (as the Parousia) was proof of their being Jehovah's people . I need that quote. It's an important claim, because it shows the motive for lying. I am putting some quotes together for a JW friend and this one or one like it would be really. really useful. Do any of you know of it or one like it? Help!