Posts by Essan

40

The fundamental flaw with the WTBTS as "God's Organization"?

by Essan in

there are countless issues that people have with the society and which together have led to many people realizing that it is not what it claims and pretends to be.

these include things like the secret un affiliation, contradictory and hypocritical stances, (malawi vs mexico vs un/ngo), the ever changing blood policy and ever changing doctrine, failed predictions for armageddon etc, etc, etc.. but what is the consensus about what the fundamental flaw is?.

what i mean is, many jw's hear about these various issues and manage to make endless excuses for them, even though this involves gross hypocrisy and excusing the society for things they would never excuse in other religions and which the society itself has ruthless condemned other religions for over almost 100 years.

Essan

Alice, you're off topic. This thread isn't about the WTBTS being a "False Prophet", and in any case, their guilt in this regard was proved beyond any reasonable objection in another thread, as you know all too well. I believe you are trolling, posting off-topic in a thread I started about a subject you (as the now banned 'Consfearacy') and I debated at length elsewhere. Are you bored? Is this the only way you can interact with fellow humans? By acting as an irritant? Do you somehow enjoy being destroyed and exposed in debates? "A kiss with a fist is better than none"? LOL. Well, I'll play along, this time.

Why should quoting a second claim by the guilty party- the Society - saying "we're not guilty" be seen as conclusive? It's meaningless. Most guilty people later profess innocence. In this case the False Prophet in question - the Society - totally contradicts themselves, first explicitly saying that failed predictions etc. definitely condemn one as a false prophet and that motive and sincerity are irrelevant, then later in another article they claim the exact opposite. So they can't even keep their own testimony straight! It's ridiculous. Then you selectively quote their contradiction and pretend that this 'proves' they're not guilty? That's laughable. It's a bit like us having a mountain of evidence of guilt (which we do) including their taped voluntary admission of guilt and them later still claiming innocence when it comes to trial and you saying "See, they now say they're innocent! That proves it! Case closed!". LOL. Very silly.

Anyway, if you want to continue this discussion you could always revive the "False Prophets Thread".

But I note you don't address the OP and the concept of proof for the Society/JW's becoming "God's Organization", "chosen" and "appointed" in 1919.

I don't blame you. No JW can prove this claimed "choosing" and "appointment" because it is a baseless myth. Therefore, they have no Scriptural basis for claiming status as "God's Organization".

177

The History and Evolution of Rock and Roll

by alice.in.wonderland in

i'll the start with the late 1960's and 1970's because aside from a few songs from the byrds, the doors and pink floyd i don't go back that far.

i'll also skip the eagles.. 1970's: .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9tgj2jrjk8.

Essan

Alice, I'm shocked and stumbled!

Thankfully, I'm also Rocked and Rolled.

9

PLEASE make my question clear on this

by hamsterbait in

"i bought eggs.".

"i bought butter.".

"i dont believe the witchtower crap.".

Essan

ROFLOL.

9

PLEASE make my question clear on this

by hamsterbait in

"i bought eggs.".

"i bought butter.".

"i dont believe the witchtower crap.".

Essan

LOLOL Brilliant HB.

It's like DjEggnogg was really here!

However, your posts need to be about 10 times longer.

But can you tell me - and please just give me a straight answer - what time is it?

62

Explanation for the generation in Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32

by alice.in.wonderland in

i see quite a bit of inquiry about the generation in matthew 24:34, mark 13:30 and luke 21:32. in every scripture in the gospels, the term generation is referring to a wicked generation except for matthew 24:34, mark 13:30 and luke 21:32. .

then as an answer to him some of the scribes and pharisees said: teacher, we want to see a sign from you.

in reply he said to them: a wicked and adulterous generation keeps on seeking for a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of jonah the prophet.

Essan

Alice, why are you choosing to represent yourself as the "Whore of Babylon"?

I'm not saying you are wrong to do so, in fact, seeing as you routinely defend a notorious "False Prophet", the Society, then using the 'Whore of Babylon to identify yourself appears entirely appropriate. I'm just surprised you are so open and "brazen" about it.

(You can be DF'd for "Brazen conduct" now, I hear)

9

PLEASE make my question clear on this

by hamsterbait in

"i bought eggs.".

"i bought butter.".

"i dont believe the witchtower crap.".

Essan

LOL. Are you "channeling" DJeggnog?

65

New elders' manual - a few more details

by sir82 in

jw
friends

per a recent boe letter:.

-- new manual will be softcover.

-- elders can keep their old elder manual if they choose.

Essan

Undercover said: "which to me signifies that they'll now have the means at their disposal to punish, er, I mean counsel, anyone whose attitude they don't like. They no longer have to wait until some actual loose conduct is committed...they can go after anyone who displays a bad attitude or questions authority"

Yeah, that's how I read it too. In the past they always used the idea that, even if the elders give a suggestion, while technically you don't HAVE to do what they say, it shows a "bad attitude" to ignore their counsel. Likewise, doing X, Y or Z may not be Scripturally wrong but it may "stumble" some people, so it shows a "bad attitude" to do it anyway. Now, they can use the idea that if you "brazenly" show a "bad attitude" by not doing what you are told or pressured to do then you can be DF'd if the Elders wish.

It gives a lot more power to the Elders IMO.

7

Christendom's Failure to Preach the true Gospel Message!

by wannabe in

christendom's failure to preach the true gospel message!.

woe to me if i do not preach the gospel!

consider the following words of jehovah:.

Essan

Wannabe, how can you quote Scripture and even put in caps the following:

"EVERYONE WHO believes (adheres to, trusts, and relies on the fact) that Jesus is the Christ (the Messiah) is a Born-Again Child of God" - 1 John 5:1, 2.

Yet not realize what it is you and the Scripture are saying? EVERYONE WHO believes in Jesus as Christ - EVERYONE, ALL TRUE CHRISTIANS - are " BORN AGAIN children of God".

This explicitly excludes JW's from being legitimate Christians. And yet you are attacking Christendom, which does teach this, rather than JW's who don't?

7

Christendom's Failure to Preach the true Gospel Message!

by wannabe in

christendom's failure to preach the true gospel message!.

woe to me if i do not preach the gospel!

consider the following words of jehovah:.

Essan

This is pretty ironic - and very silly.

The JW's DO NOT preach the Gospel that the first century Christians preached, which Jesus said would be preached, unchanged, right up until the 'End'. JW's have created a very different Gospel. But Paul said:

"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!" - Gal 1:6-9.

So what were the 1st C. Christians preaching? What was their good news? That by becoming Christian you could be a brother of Christ and have a heavenly hope. That was the Christians Gospel. That was the hope for ALL TRUE CHRISTIANS. No other hope for CHRISTIANS was offered in the NT. And this message - no other- was the one to be preached right until the end.

"By this Gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain." - 1 Cor 15:2.

"And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.... because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. ... Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory." - Romans 8.

So, if you are not "anointed" you are not Christian - "does not belong to Christ". Of course, Paul and the other apostles and NT writers never once preached a message about Christians living on a paradise earth. Never. So, by perverting the Gospel, and preaching "another gospel" and by making 'mutant (so-called) Christians' WITHOUT a heavenly hope - something which is never mentioned in the Bible - JW's have adulterated the Christian message and are, according to the Bible, "accursed".

How ironic then that they who have probably deviated from the Gospel most, should boast that they are the only ones preaching it and attack other Christians - or "beat their brothers" - because they don't follow the error of JW's.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it to life eternal. If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also; if anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him". (John 12: 24-26)
"Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. And you know the way where I am going. Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, how do we know the way?" Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." (John 14:1-6)
"It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; If we endure, we will also reign with Him... " (2 Timothy 2:11-12)
"So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh-- for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God . For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father! " The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him". (Romans 8:12-17)

40

The fundamental flaw with the WTBTS as "God's Organization"?

by Essan in

there are countless issues that people have with the society and which together have led to many people realizing that it is not what it claims and pretends to be.

these include things like the secret un affiliation, contradictory and hypocritical stances, (malawi vs mexico vs un/ngo), the ever changing blood policy and ever changing doctrine, failed predictions for armageddon etc, etc, etc.. but what is the consensus about what the fundamental flaw is?.

what i mean is, many jw's hear about these various issues and manage to make endless excuses for them, even though this involves gross hypocrisy and excusing the society for things they would never excuse in other religions and which the society itself has ruthless condemned other religions for over almost 100 years.

Essan

Some great replies thanks.

I do feel the 1914-1919 period and the supposed "choosing"and "appointing" at that time is the vulnerable 'Achilles heel' for the Org.

It can be presented as a very valid challenge "Look, I will stay (or join) if you can prove Scripturally that God said he would have one Org, and that the Society is it and was chosen in 1919. If you can do that, as you should be able to, I'll stay."

As soon as we get to the "Slave" Scripture, they have to prove they were "Discreet" and were feeding pure food at the proper time - but their own publications show this to be totally false.

Then when we get to the "Wise Virgins" Scripture - another supposed 1919 prophesy about the Society - they have to prove they were "awake" when the cry went up that the Master had arrived. They had to be ready at the time. Unfortunately they were wrongly teaching he had arrived 40 years earlier in 1874, so they were "asleep".

And the biggest gift the Society has given us relating to this pivotal time of supposed "choosing" is that, just as some quoted on the previous page, they lie now about what they preached in the run up to 1914, which shows they know full well that what they taught them is a 'black mark' against them and would disqualify them from being "chosen". This lie is easily exposed, because it just involves comparing quotes from now and then.