Essan

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Posts by Essan

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  243

  Let's settle this for once and for all...... is atheism a belief, a non-belief or an anti-belief?

  by Quillsky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my opinion is that atheism is not a belief.

  it is a belief in no belief..

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  Essan

  Jeff, Jeff, Jeff.....stick to the debate!

  Stop trying to analyze me. Firstly, you're not very good at it, probably because you have no real data on which to base sound judgments and secondly, it's totally irrelevant to the topic. I am not the thread topic. Your post is full of assumptions and they are all wrong. I have my own reasons for not wanting to say this here, partly because I shouldn't have to, but your last post was so chock full of your own assumptions and your own projections and revealing of your own belief system that I feel I have to. So are you ready?

  I have no belief in God.

  Not a jot.

  Im not a theist.

  Clear? Can we get back to the issue now without you resorting to ad hominem in pontificating about my supposed beliefs and motives?

  That would be fantastic.
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  243

  Let's settle this for once and for all...... is atheism a belief, a non-belief or an anti-belief?

  by Quillsky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my opinion is that atheism is not a belief.

  it is a belief in no belief..

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  Essan

  Terry, do you deny the possibility of existence of what you see as "distortions" of "God" (or whatever you want to call it)?

  I understand that you "cannot believe" in what you call "distortions" but do you deny the possibility of their existence?

  If you merely can't believe in the "distortions" and don't have positive believe in an unproven "God" (or whatever) but you don't or can't categorically deny the possibility of the existence of either, then what separates you from an agnostic, except for perhaps a distaste for and rage at Theistic thinking?

  Is it possible that you are actually agnostic but the whole "atheist" gig just suits your penchant for attacking and exposing Theistic mindlessness and irrationality, which, for whatever reason you consider to be a particularly destructive belief system?
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  243

  Let's settle this for once and for all...... is atheism a belief, a non-belief or an anti-belief?

  by Quillsky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my opinion is that atheism is not a belief.

  it is a belief in no belief..

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  Essan

  Q, many "Atheists" tend to be quite zealous about spreading their "Atheism". It's similar to how professed "Skeptics" can be quite zealous about espousing their "Skepticism". There are many "Atheist" groups and they seem to find enough to talk about. Perhaps, like Nic, they meet to plan how to overthrow and subsume "agnosticism", wiping it from the pages of history? :)
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  31

  Watchtower's Jesus = Michael doctrine

  by Ding in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've never really understood the watchtower's teaching on jesus being michael.

  here is what i understand they teach:.

  1. jehovah's first creation was the archangel michael.. 2. jesus was nothing more than a perfect man, not michael the archangel in human form.. 3. rather, when jesus was conceived in mary, michael went out of existence and his impersonal life force was put into jesus (analogous to sharing the same pacemaker).. 4. when jesus died, his impersonal life force went back into a recreated archangel michael.. .

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  Essan

  JW's must have some ridiculous argument to explain away Jude's references to the Assumption though, do they not? Or do they just ignore it?
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  243

  Let's settle this for once and for all...... is atheism a belief, a non-belief or an anti-belief?

  by Quillsky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my opinion is that atheism is not a belief.

  it is a belief in no belief..

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  Essan

  Wow Zid, you really go for the jugular with insults and aspersions if someone doesn't agree with you. Don't you think debate can be civil? That's as savage an attack as a JW who had his cherished beliefs questioned might make. And some wonder why 'Atheism' is sometimes likened to a religious belief?

  And what is my supposed "agenda"?

  The thread is about debating whether or not Atheism is a belief, a 'non-belief' or an 'anti-belief'. Obviously I was contending it is a belief. That's right on topic. So what's your problem?
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  269

  Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .

  i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.

  so please feel free to post your experiences.

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  Essan

  Djeggnog said: "I pointed out to him that Russell didn't predict any dates, least of all make the claim that the world would come to an end in 1914, and any statements to this effect would be false. Russell hasn't predict 1914, but believed that the Gentile Times as to which Jesus spoke at Luke 21:24 would end in 1914....Pastor Russell had from 1876, for almost 40 years, preached 1914 as a marked year, but he never made any predictions as to what would occur at that time."

  Sigh. This is beyond absurd. While I am pleased that you have been more candid in admitting one of your false claims, you continue to make false claims without having done the necessary research! Why? Why pontificate about things of which you are ignorant?

  What you say here is totally false and is easily proven to be false with just a few quotes. Russell DID predict the final catastrophic explosion of Armageddon for 1914 for and all sorts of related attendant supernatural events. You are as wrong about this as about Russell ever teaching 1914 as the years beginning Christ's invisible presence.

  Now are you going to go away and do the research to discover this and correct your new false claims or do we have to do the research for you again and hand feed you endless quotes?

  Please just save us all the time and effort, do a modicum of research, and concede that this claim is also false.

  A few quotes can be found here, enough to establish the facts, if you are interested in the facts.

  http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/failed-1914-predictions.php

  Here is just one example:

  "True, it is expecting great things to claim, as we do, that within the coming twenty-six years all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved ?. In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished at the end of A. D. 1914?. Be not surprised, then, when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the "battle of the great day of God Almighty" (Rev. 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced. The gathering of the armies is plainly visible from the standpoint of God's Word." Studies In the Scriptures Series II - The Time Is At Hand (1889) pp.99, 101
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  77

  Protect The Flock Letter From 1980

  by Bangalore in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

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  bangalore.

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  Essan

  Alice asid: "Getting back to the letter, if someone believes counter doctrines that are diametrically opposed to what the Bible teaches, why would they be associating with Jehovah's Witnesses?"

  Oh I don't know, perhaps to avoid being DF'd and shunned by lifelong friends and family?

  Alice said: "As long as I kept what I believed to myself, nobody will know about it, but when I start communicating what I believe with others, problems will develop"

  Yeah, keep your mouth shut. Keep your head down and you just might get to stay on speaking terms with your friends and family.

  CULT!
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  243

  Let's settle this for once and for all...... is atheism a belief, a non-belief or an anti-belief?

  by Quillsky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my opinion is that atheism is not a belief.

  it is a belief in no belief..

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  Essan

  LOL. Well this has been interesting.

  If I could sum up what we have learned in this debate it would be:

  PS. Cyberjesus, that's not "wisdom", it's creative writing.
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  243

  Let's settle this for once and for all...... is atheism a belief, a non-belief or an anti-belief?

  by Quillsky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my opinion is that atheism is not a belief.

  it is a belief in no belief..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Essan

  Thanks Zoiks. I enjoy a good robust debate. As long as everyone tries not to take it too seriously :)

  My main irritation with the ever broadening (re)definition of "atheist" is that in many cases I see the process as rather dishonest and a bit self serving. Also because this continual broadening of the definition eventually pushes into and blurs the lines of other labels, to the extent that some "atheists", like Nic, attempt a 'coup' on other labels, like "agnostic", trying to wipe the term out and 'swallow' it within atheism. Nic argues that there is no such thing as an agnostic. Imagine that. Thousands of years of philosophical tradition wiped out at the whim of an expansionist "atheist"? LOL

  Broadening definitions eventually become meaningless. "Atheism" is becoming a cool club (or religion Lol) that it seems everyone wants to join, even though they can't agree on anything except that a significant number of them don't actually want to abide by the established definition of "atheist".
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  243

  Let's settle this for once and for all...... is atheism a belief, a non-belief or an anti-belief?

  by Quillsky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my opinion is that atheism is not a belief.

  it is a belief in no belief..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Essan

  SixofNine sid: likewise, absence of evidence that supernatural forces have changed anything on planet earth may be considered as positive evidence that no supernatural forces exist.

  Agreed, but the "evidence" does not constitute proof. There is a difference. Both sides can present "evidence". Neither can prove it. Probability establishes likelihood, not fact. And in a scenario which, if it were to be true, so much would remain unknown (as in the case of God) the probability cannot be accurately measured.

  For instance it is considered "highly probable" that we are living in a Matrix-like simulation, in which the "Creator" (God?) is part of some "advanced civilization".

  http://www.simulation-argument.com/matrix.html

  What can we conclude from that? Not a hell of a lot. We can't prove it.