Posts by Consfearacy

270

WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

who are the false prophets today.

by barbara anderson.

in 1991, one of the watch tower societys senior writers, colin quackenbush, told me in the privacy of his office about letters which the society had received from prominent and credible elders, not apostates (thats exactly what he said), who were concerned about the increase in accusations saying that jehovahs witnesses were false prophets.

Consfearacy

Essan wrote: "After 1925 and a catalogue of embarrassing predictive disasters and false teachings about dates, all since disavowed, (or in the case of 1914 and 1919, given different meanings) - including those for 1798, 1799, 1829, 1844, 1846, 1873, 1874, 1875, 1878, 1881, 1910, 1914, 1915, 1918, 1919, 1920 - the Society finally wised up a little, not because they realized that their former course was presumptuous, destructive and Scripturally 'damning', but because they were tired of looking like fools and of their stumbled membership dropping dramatically after every failed prediction. So, they became more sneaky about how they pushed their dates, but push them they did, with varying degrees of vigor and implication, including for 1931, 1932, 1941, 1951, 1954, 1975 (you really need to do a lot more research on 1975 including listening to the audio of Talks at District Assemblies given regarding 1975 which can be found online "Don't wait until 1975, the door will be shut by then!") 1984, 1986, 1994, and 2000 - ministry to be completed "in our 20th century", text changed in bound volume); WT 10/15 1980 p31 )

I didn't switch the subject or make a deterrent, I made a valid point. Nor did I lash out. Someone initiated a derogatory statement to me personally and I responded to it. The angle you are using doesn't change what the Bible teaches or anything about the impending future. Does the research the early Bible students conducted into Bible chronology and shared with others change the following two scriptures for example?"

http://bible.cc/matthew/5-5.htm

http://bible.cc/psalms/37-29.htm

“Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5

The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it. Psalm 37:29

Can these specific Bible passages be interpreted to mean something other than what is stated in crystal clear speech?

Not all of the dates you listed were mistaken by any means. Unless you're over 90 you were not around prior to 1920 so you don't know why the early Bible students pursued a certain course of action aside from what is in their literature. What's your objective in trying to influence others by highlighting dates aquired from Bible and secular chronology and then referencing information you believe are subliminal messages or what someone stated at a district assembly?

Upon one of Jehovah's Witnesses or even all of them being informed of your sentiment, should they all disband and reorganize under a different name? Or better yet, abandon Jehovah and stop teaching others about what the future holds? In a quest for answers, the fact that the early Bible students were guided by sound principles and maintained high standards of evidence in their endeavors is revealed by their earliest literature. If you do find a problem in a study aid to Bible understanding you believe is a sin, there's no reason to incriminate others if they demonstrate godly repentance.

There's many unrepentant persons in society. The Bible clearly outlines works that befit repentance. The men and women you're indicting displayed works that befit repentance up to the end of their earthly course. If they did make a mistake, they were repentant. Going off on a kamikaze course of indicting others who display works that befit repentance is a common but a rather cheap defense mechanism from persons that are unrepentant.

270

WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

who are the false prophets today.

by barbara anderson.

in 1991, one of the watch tower societys senior writers, colin quackenbush, told me in the privacy of his office about letters which the society had received from prominent and credible elders, not apostates (thats exactly what he said), who were concerned about the increase in accusations saying that jehovahs witnesses were false prophets.

Consfearacy

Essan said;
'He's not a false prophet for a 'misunderstanding'. He's a false prophet for repeatedly preaching and teaching false predictions, as "fact" while claiming authority as "God's Mouthpiece". That's very, very different. That you choose to ignore this because you agree with some of the things he said is pretty shocking.
And you're wrong about the Society stopping predicting dates after 1925, It didn't stop until 2000 and hasn't really stopped even now.
What you are doing is resisting the Bible's clear standard because you happen to agree with some of the Society's early teachings. What you should be doing is reexamining those teachings very carefully because of being alerted to the fact that their source was, scriptural speaking, a 'false prophet'. You are also forgetting that, even if some of those teachings may be correct, "Satan keeps transforming himself into an angel of light". The false prophet's Jesus spoke of and condemned and warned us to "watch out for" were Christians, and no doubt there was much they said that was correct, or seemed so, that is why they are described as having "sheep's coverings' - they appear to be sheep. Yet Jesus says 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' These ones were even, apparently, on the lookout for Jesus return! (Matt 24:23-27) Their lies are hidden among apparent truths."

Whatever you believe is Gospel truth should result in an organizing principle with like minded individuals in an appropriate setting, not just the internet. If Jehovah's Witnesses are counterfeit Christians than common sense would denote to unite with others that share your thinking. Demonizing others as a reason for inactivity doesn't mean anything.

Thus, too, faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself. James 2:17

Now I exhort you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that you should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among you, but that you may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought. For the disclosure was made to me about you, my brothers, by those of [the house of] Chlo′e, that dissensions exist among you. 1 Corinthians 1:10-11

Therefore, brothers, since we have boldness for the way of entry into the holy place by the blood of Jesus, which he inaugurated for us as a new and living way through the curtain, that is, his flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us approach with true hearts in the full assurance of faith, having had our hearts sprinkled from a wicked conscience and our bodies bathed with clean water. Let us hold fast the public declaration of our hope without wavering, for he is faithful that promised. And let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you behold the day drawing near. Hebrews 10:19-25

I have all of the literature published by Jehovah's Witnesses. You should give me an example of what it is your are referring to.

Prior to 1925 it was pointed out that if 70 full Jubilees were calculated from what was understood to be the date when Israel entered the Promised Land (instead of starting after the last typical Jubilee before the Babylonian exile and then counting to the beginning of the Jubilee year at the end of the 50th cycle), this could point to the year 1925.

After the mistaken viewpoint, what should have been done? Should they have been gutted out and replaced? Was the error deliberate? The error wasn't repeated. I haven't observed any speculation about this system coming to a close after what was stated prior to 1925 in their literature. There was no official statement from the faithful and discreet slave about 1975. Their official statement was conversely the opposite of anything definite and was to clear up the hearsay about 1975.

Aside from your obvious disagreement about the early Bible students, looking to a date for their heavenly reward, what else do you disagree with?

270

WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

who are the false prophets today.

by barbara anderson.

in 1991, one of the watch tower societys senior writers, colin quackenbush, told me in the privacy of his office about letters which the society had received from prominent and credible elders, not apostates (thats exactly what he said), who were concerned about the increase in accusations saying that jehovahs witnesses were false prophets.

Consfearacy

"My reply: You claim CTR is not a false prophet because he said some things you do agree with? Do you have anything more than a 3rd grade education? You may, but possess the reasoning skills of less than that.

The rest of your post is just an endless babble of gibberish that says nothing of any substance and is a waste of time even replying to."

I won't judge you personally because you never know, you could be on house arrest.

You can at least chalk up an organization so some comparisons can made. Google: Religions of Today's World for a fair assessment.

So far you can speak with impunity because you choose not to identify yourself with any organization whose track record can be scrutinized. That's commonly the position of people who oppose Jehovah's Witnesses. Conceal all the skeletons hiding in your closet while condemning others.

270

WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

who are the false prophets today.

by barbara anderson.

in 1991, one of the watch tower societys senior writers, colin quackenbush, told me in the privacy of his office about letters which the society had received from prominent and credible elders, not apostates (thats exactly what he said), who were concerned about the increase in accusations saying that jehovahs witnesses were false prophets.

Consfearacy

Mary wrote, "Your statement doesn't even make any sense (what a huge surprise). Charles Russell is just one of many men who cried 'wolf' about the world ending, took some random scriptures, twisted them to mean something to suit his own agenda, and ended up looking like a fool.
There's several scriptures in the Bible that shed light on the meaning of a false prophet. Matthew 7:15-20 is one of such. Stumbling in speech isn't an identifying mark in itself, a person's motives are also called into question. If someone is operating out a selfish motive, they generally mislead.
More bullshit. You don't need "several scriptures" to "shed light on the meaning of a false prophet." Deuteronomy 18 clearly outlines what constitutes a false prophet and, much to the chagrin of people like you, a "person's motives" is not one of them. All it takes is for someone claiming to talk for Jehovah, predict that something is going to happen (and be dumb enough to throw in a specific date), and it doesn't happen. According to the scriptures, whoever does this is a false prophet, end of story. And when you measure the Organization with their own yardstick, it becomes even more embarassing for them:
"...In the all-important matter of worshiping God, it is likewise true that sincerity alone does not guarantee that God is pleased with our worship. We may conscientiously believe we are doing well in this regard, yet we may be deluding ourselves."---- Watchtower January 1, 1964 p. 4
"Since the Bible was completed and "inspiration" is no longer necessary, a true prophet is one who is faithfully proclaiming what is written in the Bible.......It matters not whether he proclaims his message with deliberate, willful and malicious intent to deceive, or whether he is the blinded and deluded dupe of Satan and hence unwittingly used of him. In either case, he is a false prophet and hence the agent of Satan." ----Watchtower May 15, 1930, p 154
So please. Spare yourself the embarassment of trying to explain away all of the WTS's false predictions that they've made over the last 130 years. If it were any other religion that had made all of these false predictions, Jehovah's Witnesses would have absolutely no problem whatsoever in pointing their finger at them with glee as they recount all of the failed prophecies that had been made. But because the Society has predicted more dates than any other religion, they get all cagey and defensive as they desperately search the scriptures trying to explain away why nothing they've ever predicted has come to pass."

The reason I have a problem labeling Charles Taze Russel a false prophet is because while he and the early Bible students did say some things I disagree with, the “Millennial Dawners” as they refered to themselves back then, also said things I do agree with. They made some statements about medical science and the use of vaccines that were quite inaccurate.

The aspect of the legal organization in use by Jehovah's Witnesses that refers to itself as the “faithful and discreet slave” has sharpened its analysis of fundamental sciences and literary output throughout the years. The Bible documents the mistakes of certain men and the good they accomplished. A noteworthy example is David. Psalms was written by David and others. Of the 150 psalms, the superscriptions attribute 73 to David. They weren't omitted from the Bible because of the adulterous affair with the wife of Uriah and the murder to cover it up. Generalizations like adulterer and murderer can be ascribed to David, but that doesn't mean the songs composed by David in the Book of Psalms weren't inspired of God.

God doesn't evolve, but human beings do progress in understanding. You can choose to label Charles Taze Russel a false prophet because of a misunderstanding, but what's that have to with anyone who follows his work? If an error is isolated, especially early on, as Jehovah's Organization was progressing, if they do continue to clarify what the Bible teaches and any prior misconceptions, their principle method of teaching will not consist of men's opinions. Provided a person believes the Bible is God's inspired word.

After the mistaken speculation about 1925 was clarified, Jehovah's Witnesses maintained the position of what is stated in Matthew 24:36.

“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.

I was born in the 70's, so it's better off for me that an end-time apocalypse didn't occur in 1925. There's push and shove amongst Christendom's Churches about what religion is true and false. From my observation, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is the only religion that makes logical sense and that synchronizes with the Bible in its entirety.

32

What Is The Watchtower Afraid Of?

by metatron in

jw
friends

if you follow the current nonsense being taught by the society, in its latest magazines and assembly parts, there seems to be a dominant theme about near worship of the "faithful slave" and tiresome nagging about 'obey, obey, obey'.. my unanswered question is: why?.

if they were the empire in star wars, i would expect to hear dark-robed members of the evil governing body muttering about " a disturbance in the force".. anyhow, what has changed to generate this sudden demand for obedience to their supposed authority?

some years ago, they panicked after contributions collapsed in the 'voluntary donation arrangement'.

Consfearacy

“Joe Pesci” who stated the assassination is a "mystery wrapped inside an enigma?" Your Halflife avatar all the sudden put me in video game mode. I'll be back in bit (Assassin's Creed 2).

32

What Is The Watchtower Afraid Of?

by metatron in

jw
friends

if you follow the current nonsense being taught by the society, in its latest magazines and assembly parts, there seems to be a dominant theme about near worship of the "faithful slave" and tiresome nagging about 'obey, obey, obey'.. my unanswered question is: why?.

if they were the empire in star wars, i would expect to hear dark-robed members of the evil governing body muttering about " a disturbance in the force".. anyhow, what has changed to generate this sudden demand for obedience to their supposed authority?

some years ago, they panicked after contributions collapsed in the 'voluntary donation arrangement'.

Consfearacy

"Change" is a harsh reality in this system. In the last decade, I've taken careful note that the political, economic and changes in the state of the national security in the United States (my place of residence) has caused a great deal of anxiety to average citizens.

Moreover, this I say, brothers, the time left is reduced. Henceforth let those who have wives be as though they had none, and also those who weep be as those who do not weep, and those who rejoice as those who do not rejoice, and those who buy as those not possessing, and those making use of the world as those not using it to the full; for the scene of this world is changing. Indeed, I want you to be free from anxiety. 1 Corinthians 7:29-32

The fundamental Bible foundation in Jehovah's Organization has remained solid throughout the duration of the organization's history. The Bible may constitute a perfect message from God, but the common error of thinking is that all Bible research and associated literary output must be called “perfect” in an absolute sense, without limitation or it has no merit.

My father graduated top of his math class in college. He studied the Bible sometime after this and assumed the Bible would be an open and shut book case, a book like any other college textbook he studied. As it turned out, the Bible was a much more difficult book to read than any other book he read, one requiring greater effort and concentration. He found that much it he could not understand in his initial inquiry. Would you expect any less from (a supreme being) God's Word? If there's an organization dedicated to this purpose, why should they be subjected to harsh and unreasonable criticism when new understanding is discovered?

98

Would the world be a better place without Atheism/Religious-ism?

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

my thread here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/197200/5/atheists-do-you-ever-talk-to-god has taken a decidedly new twist.

one that has made me think it prudent to discuss a related matter.. would the world be a better place if all atheism was gone?

would it be a better place if all religion were gone?

Consfearacy

Injustice has often been a result of the way power was distributed, not metaphysical beliefs. In the Soviet Union, the Bolsheviks were arch-atheists who assessed Christianity as an enemy to be destroyed, expressed by Vladimir Lenin and other Soviet leaders: "Our revolution will never succeed until the myth of God is removed from the mind of man."

Lenin (Chairman of the Council) was succeeded by Alexei Rykov (Joseph Stalin as the party leader). Estimates of how many people died in Stalin's engineered famine of 1933 vary. But they are staggering in their scale -- between 3 and 7 million people.

The atheist agenda of the Soviet Union didn't necessarily do any good for the nation and its people in itself.

The reason why Stalin starved the citizens that lived in Ukrain is because they wanted to secede, he viewed this as a political threat, so he just did away with them. The theocratic monarchies in medieval Europe also mainly persecuted people with counter religious or political ideologies because it threatened their empire.

The communist political system under Stalin was different than the absolute theocratic monarchies in medieval Europe but it was still a totalitarian government. Communist states do not have a separation of powers; instead, they have one national legislative body (such as the Supreme Soviet in the Soviet Union) which is considered the highest organ of state power and which is legally superior to the executive and judicial branches of government. To achieve his goals, Stalin created a new kind of government, a totalitarian state. In a totalitarian state, the government is a single-party dictatorship that controls every aspect of the lives of its citizens.

I've read a lot of the Christian Greek scriptures. Nowhere does it say that Jesus or any of his apostles killed people or sought to kill people for any reason and the Humanist Manifesto (while somewhat contemporary) doesn't have any chapters or verses that incite violence. When power is in the hands of just a few (dictatorships, monarchies) the abuse of power is generally what follows.

270

WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

who are the false prophets today.

by barbara anderson.

in 1991, one of the watch tower societys senior writers, colin quackenbush, told me in the privacy of his office about letters which the society had received from prominent and credible elders, not apostates (thats exactly what he said), who were concerned about the increase in accusations saying that jehovahs witnesses were false prophets.

Consfearacy

Mary said, "More nonsense. There are no scriptures that even hint about a 'visible organization' popping into existence after 1900 years. Plus, Charles Russell taught that the Gentile Times ended in 1799 then in 1874 or 1878---there is no "bible legacy" that foretold anything about the WTS. The idiots in charge twisted the scriptures to make them say what they wanted to.
The rest of your rant about the Dark Ages doesn't even deserve a reply as it has absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand. Bottom line is: Deut. 18 clearly states that if someone claims to speak for God, predicts an event to happen and it doesn't happen, then they are classified as a false prophet. No matter how you try to get around it, the WTS fits the description to a T."

I've been messing with the font controls. How do you get the yellow bordered square?

So if someone else were to make a connection with what the Bible teaches, because Charles Russell has destroyed his own credibility, nothing the Bible says really means anything. I guess I can understand why Russel is such a bad man.

Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, knowing that we shall receive heavier judgment. James 3:1

Meaning they'll be subjected to harsh criticism, but if it gets extreme and unreasonable, criticism is no longer constructive.

For we all stumble many times. If anyone does not stumble in word, this one is a perfect man. James 3:2

There's several scriptures in the Bible that shed light on the meaning of a false prophet. Matthew 7:15-20 is one of such. Stumbling in speech isn't an identifying mark in itself, a person's motives are also called into question. If someone is operating out a selfish motive, they generally mislead.

And many false prophets will arise and mislead many; Matthew 24:11

270

WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

who are the false prophets today.

by barbara anderson.

in 1991, one of the watch tower societys senior writers, colin quackenbush, told me in the privacy of his office about letters which the society had received from prominent and credible elders, not apostates (thats exactly what he said), who were concerned about the increase in accusations saying that jehovahs witnesses were false prophets.

Consfearacy

Mary wrote, "Horseshit. From the days of Charles Russell right up to the present day, the goons in charge have been spewing false predictions. The latest 'new light' is the 'overlapping generation' which has just been promoted at the 2010 summer ASSembly. Of course, there's absolutely no scriptural backing for their latest drivel, but since the Generation of 1914 is basically gone, they had to come up with another bullshit explanation as they desperately scramble to buy themselves some more time since Armageddon is nowhere in sight.
And by the way Debator, Charles Russell & Co. weren't "searching for basic bible truths" back then---They were 100% convinced that they already had these basic bible truths, much like they spout the same crapola today. The only reason idiots like you and the WTS itself try and get around Deuteronomy 18:22, is because it's obviously that if anyone fits the description of what a "false prophet" is---it's them. Of course, no group who claims sole ownership of "truth" will ever admit that they're false prophets, so they (and you) do what you always do when confronted with the uncomfortable truth: You try and throw out either red herring or strawman arguments in an attempt to deflect the unpleasant facts pointing straight at your head.
How pathetic."

You really didn't say anything to back your position except use profanity and degenerating metaphors as a place holder for anything credible.

If you isolate different events in the 6000 years of human history, other factors can be used to substantiate the fact that God's Kingdom as a visible organization ended before the foretold Messiah appeared in the first century CE and was reinstated after the end of the of the Dark Ages in 1804.

When Jesus appeared on the earthly scene, the corruption of the Pharisees and Sadducees indicated they obviously weren't servants of God and the Jewish nation was thus in a spiritually dismal state.

When he caught sight of many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to the baptism, he said to them:“you offspring of vipers, who has intimated to you to flee from the coming wrath? So then produce fruit that befits repentance; and do not presume to say to yourselves,‘As a father we have Abraham. Matthew 3:7-9

Moving forward a bit, Jesus foretold that his teachings would be subverted:“The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man that sowed fine seed in his field. While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat, and left.” Surprisingly, when servants brought the evil deed to the man’s attention and asked for permission to collect the weeds, the man said:“No; that by no chance, while collecting the weeds, you uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.” Matthew 13:24-30.

Jesus himself explained in his illustration; the man who sowed wheat in the field represents Jesus, and the seeds he planted represent true Christians. The weeds represent lawless, apostate men who falsely claim to be servants of God.

As foretold, ambitious men took control of the congregation that Jesus had established and used it for their own ends. Power-hungry men formed alliances with rulers and formed State churches that amassed immense power and wealth. When Medieval Christian churches had complete control over government and human life, no one could teach anything outside what was official church doctrine without being punished by Inquisitors.

It was (outside secular sources) that put an end to the Dark Ages, not church officials. This paved the way for the restoration of God's visible organization. Using the Bible and secular resources the early Bible students pinpointed the end of the gentile times. The men that were mistaken about a date (1925) not a prophecy are pretty much dead. How can these men who were mistaken kill the Bible's legacy and the words of prophets recorded in the Bible?

270

WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

who are the false prophets today.

by barbara anderson.

in 1991, one of the watch tower societys senior writers, colin quackenbush, told me in the privacy of his office about letters which the society had received from prominent and credible elders, not apostates (thats exactly what he said), who were concerned about the increase in accusations saying that jehovahs witnesses were false prophets.

Consfearacy

It's simple to compile a list of prophets in the Hebrew and Christian Greek Scriptures. The most noteworthy in the context of this discussion would be:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophets_of_Christianity

Daniel
Ezekiel
Isaiah
Jeremiah
Jesus
John of Patmos

Daniel who interpreted Nebuchadnezzar’s dream, regarding the immense tree that was cut down and then banded with iron and copper, until seven times pass over it.

And because the king beheld a watcher, even a holy one, coming down from the heavens, who was also saying: “chop the tree down, and ruin it. However, leave its rootstock itself in the earth, but with a banding of iron and of copper, among the grass of the field, and with the dew of the heavens let it become wet, and with the beasts of the field let its portion be until seven times themselves pass over it. Daniel 4:23

Nebuchadnezzar’s dream of an immense image, in human form, that represented world powers. The entire image was crushed by a stone cut out of a mountain, the stone thereafter filling the entire earth. Da 2:31-35.

1.The gold head – Babylon
2. The silver breast and arms - Medo-Persia
3.The copper belly and thighs - Greece
4.The iron legs - Rome and later, its political descendant, the Anglo-American World Power
5.The feet partly of iron and partly of molded clay - All earthly governments during the time of end that are unitedly, opposed to the Messianic Kingdom established in the heavens. This is the final state of human rule.

Other scriptures that have application to Bible prophecy:

In the first year of his reigning I myself, Daniel, discerned by the books the number of the years concerning which the word of Jehovah had occurred to Jeremiah the prophet, for fulfilling the devastations of Jerusalem, [namely,] seventy years. Daniel 9:2

Is the thinking here, that because the Watch Tower Society was mistaken about the year 1925, the above prophets in the Bible no longer have any practical meaning in our time, or what is stated in Bible books like Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelation can be understood to mean something entirely different?