interesting argument... much more clear for me to understand when you put it another way, thank you. One thing I found interesting is that you say " Agnostics have one shape in their head. Atheists have another shape. Believers have a God-shape. " because I told my atheist friend that he started to fill up on Atheist ideas, to which he replied there is no such thing as "atheist ideas"
you make a very good point; however, playing devil's advocate:
The art world had learning that gave them an appreciation of what is "good" art and therefore makes your retired friend successful. The bank tellers also had their ideas of art, be it as less educated in art as it may or may not have been... they still had notions of what appealed to them. The art community and the bank tellers had different schools of thought, however they were schooled in some way. They did get their ideas from someplace. We decide the winners, but what put the ideas in our head in the first place to make these decisions? Also, things like art and beauty are subjective, but then there also tends to be things that have much greater appeal by a wide audience then other things... such as the beauty of a sunset on the beach...
Hmmm.... further questions: is it because I think a sunset on the beach is beautiful that makes it beautiful? Would other people agree that it is beautiful? If I never were to view a sunset would it make it less beautiful? According to you, Terry, I decide if it is a winner. Do I have a sunset shape in my head that makes it so?
Terry, sincerely though, really good insight, you challenged my way of thinking. I still don't know.
I agree with you that picking up one grain of sand is totally random. I agree with you that it is a specific grain of sand out of millions, and that it is specific holds no real significance... However here is where we differ, and this is what I was trying to get across: what if I took that grain of sand, with it's fellow grains of sand, and blew it into glass. Further I took the glass and blew it in the shape of a swan... what if, further, I made hinges and wheels and corks and screws and now I have a mechanical glass swan that sings a song and walks around... While picking up a grain of sand may be random creating a glass swan would not be random. Making it into a robot would be even less random. Our universe is far more complex then the design and workings of making a glass figurine or making a robot.
The universe and life on this planet has so much more complexity: including patterns and harmony... design... The act of picking up a grain of sand would not require design...