Posts by rawe

11

Events leading to my decision to disassociate

by Roger Kirkpatrick in

following is a summary of events leading up to my decision to disassociate from jehovah's witnesses and the unforeseen results of that decision.. a young man named joel engardio produced a documentary about jehovah's witnesses called "knocking" which aired nationally on pbs.

i purchased the dvd from joel before it was even released and we exchanged emails.

joel had been raised by his jw mother and had been active in jw activities during his adolescence, but he was never baptized as a jw.

rawe

Hi Roger,

What struck me in your account was contrast between your empathy and interest vs concern and control expressed by the elders. Not only did you find the pro-JW "Knocking" documentary interesting (I too watched it as a JW) but you went the extra mile to contact Joel and get his back-story. You then related that with empathy in your part. Given that 2-3% of the population will identify has homosexual in most congregations it is likely 1 or 2 will be homosexual.

Some of the elders by contrast found the idea uncomfortable. But so what? The facts about Joel are just that -- facts about his existence. As is true 2-3% stat. And you're not asking them to agree and speak on the subject. Where is the freedom and trust in their brother? Alas, the imagined purity of message and presentation trump all that. And so it goes... no apostate, like Raymond Franz, got to you. Used his supposed magical skills to divorce you from the "truth." Rather, JWs, eat up their own. So determined they are to control their members they wind up crushing the spirit of otherwise loyal members.

I'm now an atheist, but I would agree -- you're being called to peace. The road from JW to former member can be bumpy at times. In the end, for most, it is much better place. A place where one can be their authentic self. Where trivial and petty debates about words are a thing of the past.

Take care,

-Randy

8

An atheist sermon on grace (my second UU* sermon)

by rawe in

i had a fair bit of fun giving my first ever post-jw religious sermon.

so i asked rev.

andy if he would like me to deliver another.

rawe

Hi Cofty,

Thanks. I'll be interested in your feedback.

The sermons throughout the month took on the subject of grace from a number of different angles. My sermon's focus was on why, as an atheist, I feel blessed.

The normal Christian view of grace seems to be responsive. That is, Christians are taught and believe they are under grace and blessed by God and hence should be likewise toward others. That charity towards others is the natural response to feeling blessed. I think some JWs react in a similar fashion, but when they do, it is contrary to overall direction of the organization. The JW "blessing" is receiving the "truth" from The Watchtower. Hence JW "charity" is distributing The Watchtower to others. When published JW stories hint at special favor from Jehovah, invariably, the focus tends to be on how the organization was blessed.

The truth for me, though is, I feel incredibly blessed. Not only am I one of the "lucky ones," to quote Dawkins, but I have an incredible wife, four beautiful daughters, two son's-in-law, three grandchildren with one more on the way. And when it came time to leave JWs my entire family left with me. We are shunned by a few friends and family that matter, and that remains painful. But we'll keep chipping away at the stone in hopes they will see their way clear to letting us back into their lives. Already a few have.

Cheers,

-Randy

8

An atheist sermon on grace (my second UU* sermon)

by rawe in

i had a fair bit of fun giving my first ever post-jw religious sermon.

so i asked rev.

andy if he would like me to deliver another.

rawe

Hi Still Totally ADD,

In the sermon I made brief mention of NWT translating the Greek "chariti" as "undeserved kindness" vs "grace" that most other translations use. I didn't get into why that might be the case. I don't know for certain of course. However, it is typical of new religious movements to make choices that separate themselves from others. In this they are seeking a purity or restoration. In reality it tends to leads to smugness. How odd is that? The very Christian quality that should result in humility and wider acceptance of others instead leads to harshness and intolerance!

On VUU's YouTube channel there is a recent sermon by Reverend Dennis McCarty entitled What's Antidisestablishmentarianism and Why Should We Care? This sermon goes into a bit of UU history. He also touches on some of the mistakes the Unitarians made.

The general impression I get is the Unitarians were kinda intellectual and scholarly. In contrast the Universalist were more of a humble lot that simply stressed universal salvation. As Rev. Andy has quipped, the Unitarians believed they were too good to be damned and the Univeralists believed God was too good to damn them. The blending of these two makes the group interesting.

Good luck with your sermon!

Cheers,

-Randy

8

An atheist sermon on grace (my second UU* sermon)

by rawe in

i had a fair bit of fun giving my first ever post-jw religious sermon.

so i asked rev.

andy if he would like me to deliver another.

rawe

Hi Everyone,

I had a fair bit of fun giving my first ever post-JW religious sermon. So I asked Rev. Andy if he would like me to deliver another. He said yes and mentioned the theme for the month of January was "grace."

This second sermon is not as overtly about JWs as my first one. I do though mention some things like Raymond Franz and an Awake! article in the 1990s. I also mention an experience I had reading the life story of an Ex-Mormon.

Like before, I found the experience unlike giving JW public talks. To be able to author your own material and speak freely about what you really believe is way better starting point for public speaking. I was still a bit nervous, but mostly because I felt like all the people VUU deserve the best I can give them.

Anyway, if you're interested, I hope you enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbDgNvHiz9U

Cheers,

-Randy

*UU = Unitarian Universalist. A liberal religious faith that is based on 7 principals rather than any defined dogma. They are one of the few faiths when an atheist such as myself can feel at home.

13

My sermon at Valley Unitarian Universalist Congregation

by rawe in

jw
friends

it has been awhile since i have visited the forum.

since the fall of 2013 i've been attending the unitarian universalist congregation in chandler, az.

i became a member in 2015. this past september i gave the sermon.

rawe

Hi Diane,

[Thanks, Randy. I have complex PTSD, so I am easily triggered by listening to a speaker reference the Bible. I didn't find that to be the case with your sermon.]

Yes, that is good point. I mentioned the other Ex-JW at VUU. His sister talked to me afterwards and said the exact same thing! That she really has an adverse reaction at any mention of the Bible, but didn't in this case. Perhaps knowing that I absolutely do not believe the material is the "word of God" makes the difference.

I believe the secular view of the Bible can highlight so much that a believer actually misses. For example, how often does one hear that "Satan" spoke to "Eve." But of course, the account in Genesis says nothing of the sort. "Satan" and "Devil" is simply not a character one finds anywhere in Genesis. Genesis says a "Serpent" spoke to Eve and the structure of the narrative leaves the distinct impression the authors literally means a talking snake. The idea that animals once talked like humans is not unusual. Origin stories of North American Indians have such accounts.

Cheers,

-Randy

13

My sermon at Valley Unitarian Universalist Congregation

by rawe in

jw
friends

it has been awhile since i have visited the forum.

since the fall of 2013 i've been attending the unitarian universalist congregation in chandler, az.

i became a member in 2015. this past september i gave the sermon.

rawe

Hi Reopened Mind,

I served as a MS from 1993 until 2000 when I appointed an elder. I resigned in 2005, explaining in my letter that I had a sympathetic view of the theory of evolution. I was sure that I could keep going even though privately I was an atheist. And that might have worked, until of course the situation with my daughter came to the fore.

Good for you on giving sermons! So... funny thing... One of the things Wendy and I talked about was getting too involved in UU. We wanted to keep it simple Sunday thing. The main worry was I would be asked to help in various ways. But... what we didn't think about was Wendy would be asked! So, Wendy looks after the welcome table with another congregation member. On one occasion Rev. Kellie, Wendy and the other individual were meeting to discuss things. When they were done, I quipped -- "finally you are making me wait for your *elder* meeting to end!" :-)

I have visited a few UU congregations when we've traveled. VUU I believe is on the larger side (we have about 300 members).

Cheers,

-Randy

13

My sermon at Valley Unitarian Universalist Congregation

by rawe in

jw
friends

it has been awhile since i have visited the forum.

since the fall of 2013 i've been attending the unitarian universalist congregation in chandler, az.

i became a member in 2015. this past september i gave the sermon.

rawe

Hi Diane,

I have little doubt that had I not been a JW I would have nothing more than a passing interest in the Bible. So when I finally could accept that for myself I was an atheist, I had to decide what to do with all the Bible reading and studying I had done. My first worry was directed towards my daughters. I felt that by keeping up a Bible reading program and study I would stand a better chance of countering any charismatic charlatan who my daughter my encounter. So I figured that if they should encounter such, they would at least know I had put in an effort to understand the material and could respond.

After awhile I found myself describing the Bible as and old friend, with flaws for sure, but an old friend nonetheless. I take issues with JWs and many other modern religions, but the Bible authors I am much more generous with. They wrote during a time of very little knowledge. I don't mean to suggest that excuses moral issues like suggesting it is okay to drown babies, kittens and puppies because of the "badness of man." But even in the Noah story I see an attempt to understand why floods, some of them probably devastating, happened and seemed to kill at random.

Finally I concluded a thing about ownership. So many, JWs included, presume that they "own" the Bible. I reject that. The Bible is a gift to all humanity. An odd collection of religious documents that have survived until our day. Just because I don't "believe" doesn't mean I am under some obligation to avoid the material.

Cheers,

-Randy

13

My sermon at Valley Unitarian Universalist Congregation

by rawe in

jw
friends

it has been awhile since i have visited the forum.

since the fall of 2013 i've been attending the unitarian universalist congregation in chandler, az.

i became a member in 2015. this past september i gave the sermon.

rawe

Hi AudeSapere,

Thank you for the kind words. I think we've found a faith home at VUU. UUs have a wide range of interest from the spiritual to social justice. Many UUs will say "Love is our doctrine. Service is our prayer." But of course that leaves open the question of how exactly does one make that a real thing? Part of the answer of me is using my experience with JWs as a way to help others who are leaving faiths and searching for something better. Thus I often participate in our "welcome circle" where new ones come and chat and ask questions. There is an amazing amount of flow-through our congregation, wherein folks come for awhile and then stop. A few though become long term members. This of course is okay. There is no pressure to make "converts."

I also chair the LPCA (Lay Pastoral Care Associates) group. We provide workshops as well as one-on-one compassionate listening and home and hospital visits when requested. Right now we're running the workshop I mentioned in the sermon "Owning Your Religious Past." At today's session we were to bring an object from our religious past. So I brought my service bag that I had the day I left. All the stuff from October 2007 is still in the case. I even discovered my old Palm Pilot was in there, where I kept track of RVs.

But yes, it is absolutely wonderful to be alive in the here and now. To be on that long cruise! I feel no compulsion to ask God or the Cosmos for more.

Cheers, -Randy

13

My sermon at Valley Unitarian Universalist Congregation

by rawe in

jw
friends

it has been awhile since i have visited the forum.

since the fall of 2013 i've been attending the unitarian universalist congregation in chandler, az.

i became a member in 2015. this past september i gave the sermon.

rawe

Hi Still Totally ADD,

They do. The website is vuu [dot] org and from there you can see the link to the YouTube channel. They also live stream the service through YouTube. It was my wife Wendy who really saw the need for me to get involved in some form of religious life.

That's cool that you've give sermon's there. This was my first one, although Rev. Andy, mentioned afterwards that he might wish for me to give a few more.

Cheers,

-Randy

13

My sermon at Valley Unitarian Universalist Congregation

by rawe in

jw
friends

it has been awhile since i have visited the forum.

since the fall of 2013 i've been attending the unitarian universalist congregation in chandler, az.

i became a member in 2015. this past september i gave the sermon.

rawe

Hi Everyone,

It has been awhile since I have visited the forum. Since the fall of 2013 I've been attending the Unitarian Universalist Congregation in Chandler, AZ. I became a member in 2015. This past September I gave the sermon. The theme for the month was "vocation" so although I relate a bit of my story leaving Jehovah's Witnesses the sermon is tied back to the meaning of "vocation."

Here is the link on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LypQrHrCrk

It was especially nice to have all my girls (I have 4 daughters) and their husbands (2 are married) and grandchildren (we have 4 now) in attendance. Normally just myself and my wife Wendy and our youngest daughter Montana attend services.

Cheers,

-Randy