Posts by rawe

25

I think I made up my mind

by paradiseseeker in

jw
friends

a month ago i travelled alone to italy for three days and i had the opportunity to visit the beautiful florence and re-visit many parts of rome.. but most importantly, i had the opportunity to stay alone and think about my situation and to make up my mind.. i've had very clear for almost 5 years that i will eventually leave the religion, but i couldn't decide when.. but now i know : i will leave on april 20th, the day after the memorial.. that day i will talk to my parents (this is by far the hardest thing to do) and soon afterwards i will talk to my closest friends, then i will send my disassociation letter.

i know that i will let them down, i will hurt them, most probably some of them will cry... but i need to live coherently for the first time in my life.

i'm sure that living in this contradiction is affecting and will affect my mental health and it's time for me to help myself instead of others.

rawe

Hi paradiseseeker,

My wife and I talked about leaving the faith a few times before we actually did. Almost immediately after I was appointed an elder I became disturbed by how this part of the faith functioned. I already had some serious doubts about the existence of God, Noah's flood and how we treated the theory of evolution. But we were both greatly frightened by the prospect of leaving. So we hung on for a few more years.

When we left it was dramatic. Out in service Saturday morning and left that afternoon. But a circumstance surrounding my daughter was a catalyst. Two years previously I resigned as an elder and was now more comfortable with the idea my doubts about the existence of God was not going to go away.

Once a person has decided I don't think there is much reason to delay. In most cases I recommend against writing a letter of disassociation. Unless the person is still in agreement with the rules of the faith there is no real obligation to follow their formulas.

Leaving was a bit disorienting. I found keeping all the other parts of my life in a routine helped. Work was still there. My family was still there (in my case my wife and daughters left with me). I took up running, which helped. Eventually we found an Ex-JW meetup group and that was great (mostly). I say "mostly" because one of the two groups near us was oriented towards getting JWs to become nominal Christians -- which I wasn't interested in.

The cold realization that so many friendships in the faith are conditional came as a shock. Literally nothing about my person, how kind I had been or continued to be made a difference. The depth of the influence the faith has over those who believe was more than I ever thought.

Adjusting to the world outside also took time. As awful as the JW life was, there is something to being part of a small group who self-style themselves as "us against the world." There is an odd reality to the "brotherhood" that I found doesn't exist in the larger wider world. The good news I found is with some work relationships you do gain are built on a much better foundation. The ability to really listen without judgment is great. I eventually joined another religion (Unitarian Universalists) who accept atheists.

It wasn't easy to leave, but after being out for all these years, we are so happy to have it in our past. My wife and girls love Christmas!

Take care, -Randy

10

Memorial Non-Attendance: The Single Most Impactful TTATT Witness to JW Friends & Family

by AMNESIANO in

jw
friends

must read!.

(posted annually since 2014).

notice: the following is submitted in full recognition of and with compassion and due respect for those who, due to personal circumstance, feel they are unable to employ the following powerful strategy.

rawe

Hi Everyone,

Since leaving in 2007 I have attended memorial almost every year (I think I missed one time). I do so as a sign of respect for two individuals who remain in the faith. My mother-in-law and one dear friend who was like a mother to me while I was growing up. And to an extent I wish to slay a certain bogeyman. I live in Chandler Arizona where no JWs know me. I lived in north Phoenix when I left the faith and although gave talks around the valley when I was an elder, still no JW knows me down here. I grew up in Quesnel, BC, Canada. For the last two memorials I've made the trek up to Canada to visit family at the time of the memorial so I can attend there. I'm heading up again this year.

Now if you think this is all a bit crazy -- I totally understand -- and it probably is to an extent ;-).

In 2013 I began to attend Valley Unitarian Universalist Congregation here in Chandler. I became a member of VUU in January 2015. UUs are one of the few faiths that accept atheists, such as myself. Lots of atheists are non-religious, so I'm a bit of an exception there too. The UU faith rejects the idea of dogma. None of "you must believe this or that or do this or that." Rather UUs are guided by seven principals. The sixth principal is:

"The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all"

While I cannot control what someone might think of what it means when I attend, I also don't worry too much about that either. I've twice attend services as a Mosque. I've attended Catholic Mass, one time in Latin. If someone were to conclude I'm a Muslim or Catholic or agree with the doctrines of these faiths they would be wrong. For those that want to know they just need to ask. What I hope though is these efforts help bring a wee bit of peace, liberty and justice. I don't know if that for sure will work. But that is my goal nonetheless.

Likewise, if someone were to conclude I hold a sympathetic view towards JW beliefs that is not true. On the other hand, if someone were to ask, I would surely report that I hold a sympathetic view towards JWs as individuals. In particular certain individuals I hold very dear and wish for them to realize that whether they decide to remain or leave does not alter how I feel about them. Given that both are older women in their 80s who have been life-long JWs I'm not sure how keen I would be for them to leave the faith. Leaving in my 40s, it took me several years to adjust. I have no idea what it would be like for someone in their 80s.

The leadership of JWs attempt to make out that former members are bogeyman. Ex-JWs are surely misled by the devil and could never leave and live good lives. The leadership also implies both JWs and Ex-JWs will follow certain rules. I see no reason why such a premise should be accepted. My name was announced at the Kingdom Hall, but I was never disfellowshipped nor did I write a letter of disassociation. When I openly celebrated Christmas in 2009 after leaving in 2007 the Union Hills elders took it upon themselves to act against my wishes and ultimately without informing me. However, this doesn't mean I must treat people in any different way. When I show up, I'll be friendly and say "hi." How folks respond is up to them. When I see Witnesses in public and if I have the time, I will visit and engage them in a friendly way. If the conversation allows for it I share a bit of my story.

I'm 54 and am in college now. It is slow going since lots going on with a family, work and church. This semester I'm taking Philosophy 101. I ran across this passage in my text that I thought was interesting:

"The true Brahmin adopts nothing from others, owes nothing to others' views; immune from strife, he deems no theory 'the Truth.'" (Buddhist Scripture: A Dialogue on Dogmatism and Truth).

Cheers, -Randy

8

An atheist sermon on grace (my second UU* sermon)

by rawe in

i had a fair bit of fun giving my first ever post-jw religious sermon.

so i asked rev.

andy if he would like me to deliver another.

rawe

Hi Still Totally ADD, We just need to keep this up. Eventually The Watchtower will issue a stern warning about the dangers of UUism :-). I must here confess that I had never heard of RRofO until one VUU members casually mentioned it. Kidding aside UU is a great place for atheist/agnostics who continue to feel a pull towards being religious and/or have an interest in social justice work. Cheers, -Randy

8

An atheist sermon on grace (my second UU* sermon)

by rawe in

i had a fair bit of fun giving my first ever post-jw religious sermon.

so i asked rev.

andy if he would like me to deliver another.

rawe

Hi dogisgod,

Very cool! Cheers, -Randy

11

Events leading to my decision to disassociate

by Roger Kirkpatrick in

following is a summary of events leading up to my decision to disassociate from jehovah's witnesses and the unforeseen results of that decision.. a young man named joel engardio produced a documentary about jehovah's witnesses called "knocking" which aired nationally on pbs.

i purchased the dvd from joel before it was even released and we exchanged emails.

joel had been raised by his jw mother and had been active in jw activities during his adolescence, but he was never baptized as a jw.

rawe

Hi Roger,

What struck me in your account was contrast between your empathy and interest vs concern and control expressed by the elders. Not only did you find the pro-JW "Knocking" documentary interesting (I too watched it as a JW) but you went the extra mile to contact Joel and get his back-story. You then related that with empathy in your part. Given that 2-3% of the population will identify has homosexual in most congregations it is likely 1 or 2 will be homosexual.

Some of the elders by contrast found the idea uncomfortable. But so what? The facts about Joel are just that -- facts about his existence. As is true 2-3% stat. And you're not asking them to agree and speak on the subject. Where is the freedom and trust in their brother? Alas, the imagined purity of message and presentation trump all that. And so it goes... no apostate, like Raymond Franz, got to you. Used his supposed magical skills to divorce you from the "truth." Rather, JWs, eat up their own. So determined they are to control their members they wind up crushing the spirit of otherwise loyal members.

I'm now an atheist, but I would agree -- you're being called to peace. The road from JW to former member can be bumpy at times. In the end, for most, it is much better place. A place where one can be their authentic self. Where trivial and petty debates about words are a thing of the past.

Take care,

-Randy

8

An atheist sermon on grace (my second UU* sermon)

by rawe in

i had a fair bit of fun giving my first ever post-jw religious sermon.

so i asked rev.

andy if he would like me to deliver another.

rawe

Hi Cofty,

Thanks. I'll be interested in your feedback.

The sermons throughout the month took on the subject of grace from a number of different angles. My sermon's focus was on why, as an atheist, I feel blessed.

The normal Christian view of grace seems to be responsive. That is, Christians are taught and believe they are under grace and blessed by God and hence should be likewise toward others. That charity towards others is the natural response to feeling blessed. I think some JWs react in a similar fashion, but when they do, it is contrary to overall direction of the organization. The JW "blessing" is receiving the "truth" from The Watchtower. Hence JW "charity" is distributing The Watchtower to others. When published JW stories hint at special favor from Jehovah, invariably, the focus tends to be on how the organization was blessed.

The truth for me, though is, I feel incredibly blessed. Not only am I one of the "lucky ones," to quote Dawkins, but I have an incredible wife, four beautiful daughters, two son's-in-law, three grandchildren with one more on the way. And when it came time to leave JWs my entire family left with me. We are shunned by a few friends and family that matter, and that remains painful. But we'll keep chipping away at the stone in hopes they will see their way clear to letting us back into their lives. Already a few have.

Cheers,

-Randy

8

An atheist sermon on grace (my second UU* sermon)

by rawe in

i had a fair bit of fun giving my first ever post-jw religious sermon.

so i asked rev.

andy if he would like me to deliver another.

rawe

Hi Still Totally ADD,

In the sermon I made brief mention of NWT translating the Greek "chariti" as "undeserved kindness" vs "grace" that most other translations use. I didn't get into why that might be the case. I don't know for certain of course. However, it is typical of new religious movements to make choices that separate themselves from others. In this they are seeking a purity or restoration. In reality it tends to leads to smugness. How odd is that? The very Christian quality that should result in humility and wider acceptance of others instead leads to harshness and intolerance!

On VUU's YouTube channel there is a recent sermon by Reverend Dennis McCarty entitled What's Antidisestablishmentarianism and Why Should We Care? This sermon goes into a bit of UU history. He also touches on some of the mistakes the Unitarians made.

The general impression I get is the Unitarians were kinda intellectual and scholarly. In contrast the Universalist were more of a humble lot that simply stressed universal salvation. As Rev. Andy has quipped, the Unitarians believed they were too good to be damned and the Univeralists believed God was too good to damn them. The blending of these two makes the group interesting.

Good luck with your sermon!

Cheers,

-Randy

8

An atheist sermon on grace (my second UU* sermon)

by rawe in

i had a fair bit of fun giving my first ever post-jw religious sermon.

so i asked rev.

andy if he would like me to deliver another.

rawe

Hi Everyone,

I had a fair bit of fun giving my first ever post-JW religious sermon. So I asked Rev. Andy if he would like me to deliver another. He said yes and mentioned the theme for the month of January was "grace."

This second sermon is not as overtly about JWs as my first one. I do though mention some things like Raymond Franz and an Awake! article in the 1990s. I also mention an experience I had reading the life story of an Ex-Mormon.

Like before, I found the experience unlike giving JW public talks. To be able to author your own material and speak freely about what you really believe is way better starting point for public speaking. I was still a bit nervous, but mostly because I felt like all the people VUU deserve the best I can give them.

Anyway, if you're interested, I hope you enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbDgNvHiz9U

Cheers,

-Randy

*UU = Unitarian Universalist. A liberal religious faith that is based on 7 principals rather than any defined dogma. They are one of the few faiths when an atheist such as myself can feel at home.

13

My sermon at Valley Unitarian Universalist Congregation

by rawe in

jw
friends

it has been awhile since i have visited the forum.

since the fall of 2013 i've been attending the unitarian universalist congregation in chandler, az.

i became a member in 2015. this past september i gave the sermon.

rawe

Hi Diane,

[Thanks, Randy. I have complex PTSD, so I am easily triggered by listening to a speaker reference the Bible. I didn't find that to be the case with your sermon.]

Yes, that is good point. I mentioned the other Ex-JW at VUU. His sister talked to me afterwards and said the exact same thing! That she really has an adverse reaction at any mention of the Bible, but didn't in this case. Perhaps knowing that I absolutely do not believe the material is the "word of God" makes the difference.

I believe the secular view of the Bible can highlight so much that a believer actually misses. For example, how often does one hear that "Satan" spoke to "Eve." But of course, the account in Genesis says nothing of the sort. "Satan" and "Devil" is simply not a character one finds anywhere in Genesis. Genesis says a "Serpent" spoke to Eve and the structure of the narrative leaves the distinct impression the authors literally means a talking snake. The idea that animals once talked like humans is not unusual. Origin stories of North American Indians have such accounts.

Cheers,

-Randy

13

My sermon at Valley Unitarian Universalist Congregation

by rawe in

jw
friends

it has been awhile since i have visited the forum.

since the fall of 2013 i've been attending the unitarian universalist congregation in chandler, az.

i became a member in 2015. this past september i gave the sermon.

rawe

Hi Reopened Mind,

I served as a MS from 1993 until 2000 when I appointed an elder. I resigned in 2005, explaining in my letter that I had a sympathetic view of the theory of evolution. I was sure that I could keep going even though privately I was an atheist. And that might have worked, until of course the situation with my daughter came to the fore.

Good for you on giving sermons! So... funny thing... One of the things Wendy and I talked about was getting too involved in UU. We wanted to keep it simple Sunday thing. The main worry was I would be asked to help in various ways. But... what we didn't think about was Wendy would be asked! So, Wendy looks after the welcome table with another congregation member. On one occasion Rev. Kellie, Wendy and the other individual were meeting to discuss things. When they were done, I quipped -- "finally you are making me wait for your *elder* meeting to end!" :-)

I have visited a few UU congregations when we've traveled. VUU I believe is on the larger side (we have about 300 members).

Cheers,

-Randy