Vanderhoven7

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Posts by Vanderhoven7

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  15

  Blew it this morning with 4 JWs

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  so i decided to go hunting for jws this morning.

  walked to the end of my driveway and who should be approaching...but 2 ladies, one old (dianne) and one younger both with watchtower mags in hand.

  dianne shared how the world was under the control of satan etc.

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  Vanderhoven7

  @Jazzbo yes...exactly what don't want to do. Thanks for the reminder.

  @JP Love the analogy. Made me chuckle.
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  5

  A look at the sins of the Governing Body members of the Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Finkelstein in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the leaders of the jws and the ibsa had their own unique inherent sins ingrained in their teachings and established doctrines.. c t russell taught and preached pyramidology to establish the date of jesus's return and subsequent armageddon.

  this fixated date setting carried over even when he passed on and the following leaders of the wts propagated new dates such as 1925, 1975 etc.

  it would appear the leaders of the wts created more relevance and importance toward themselves than even jesus and his spoken words of direction and how to be one his chosen select.. it would appear also that the leaders of the wts/jws were more involved in creating their own power and money through the organization that they created in their endeavor as proliferating literature charlatans.. the doctrinal mistakes that have come out of these men are many, from setting dates of christ's return, to mistakes on blood transfusions, memorial mistakes, encouraging and influencing children to get baptized, over use of disfellowshiping , sometimes done so to protect their wrongly devised doctrines.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Adding to the Bible- eg. Inserting the name of Jehovah 237 times to the New Testament.

  Adding submission to the GB/FDS to the salvation formula.

  Changing the nature of Christian salvation from eternal spiritual salvation to temporary physical survival.

  Denying the benefits of the gospel to 99 percent of believers.i.e., etetnal life, heavenly hope, Spirit begettal, righteousness, justification etc.

  Altering the means if salvation. Denegrating faith by Adding works to the salvation formula. Denying that the blood of Christ is sufficient to cleanse from all sin.

  Denying the mediatorship role of the Lord to most Christians.

  The list goes on how they have changed the gospel of Christ and judged all non JW Christian's to be worthy of eternal destruction.

  The list goes on.
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  15

  Blew it this morning with 4 JWs

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  so i decided to go hunting for jws this morning.

  walked to the end of my driveway and who should be approaching...but 2 ladies, one old (dianne) and one younger both with watchtower mags in hand.

  dianne shared how the world was under the control of satan etc.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Thank you to everyone who responded to my confession with support and/or advice.

  @Fink That certainly is my goal...and I do believe that asking them to support their extra-biblical teachings is the way to go. I just have to be considerably less aggressive in my approach.

  @Sparky Thank you for your encouragement. And hopefully Jon Kabat-Zinn's quote applies in yours truly's case.

  @ Ding Thanks....definitely in this case the good cop was more effective than the bad cop today.

  @ Fall Guy Exactly. I was clearly trying to confront and force them to defend their extra-biblical teachings...which proved totally fruitless. A learning experience for me. Seems like I have that snarling brain dog as well.

  @ Diogenesister "I find the most effective method is to drop one, or at most two, thoughts/questions/statements of fact. That way they don't get overwhelmed & can remember what you've said later on when they calm down."

  Very good point Gal; one I will aim to follow.

  @NewSheep You are absolutely right about no protection needed. My son is on fire and out to win souls to Christ.

  @ Ashley Yes, empathy is exactly what was missing on my part today

  @ Terry Thanks for your honesty and vulnerability. You are absolutely right.
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  15

  Blew it this morning with 4 JWs

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  so i decided to go hunting for jws this morning.

  walked to the end of my driveway and who should be approaching...but 2 ladies, one old (dianne) and one younger both with watchtower mags in hand.

  dianne shared how the world was under the control of satan etc.

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  Vanderhoven7

  So I decided to go hunting for JWs this morning. Walked to the end of my driveway and who should be approaching...but 2 ladies, one old (Dianne) and one younger both with Watchtower mags in hand. Dianne shared how the world was under the control of Satan etc. Then I asked her how she became a Christian. She became a witness in the late 50s. The young one was born in.

  As I shared my testimony two elder types (assumed they were husbands) joined us as well. My son, who was watching from the window joined us. My son was warm and friendly and open to dialogue. Unfortunately, I on the other hand went on the attack, explaining rather forcefully that the foundations of their religion were unbiblical. The main elder did not want to hear about 105 year 1914 generation, the 1918 first resurrection etc.

  My son encouraged them to come back and the elder said he would. Rudely, I said that I had heard that before and that I didn't believe he would come back to have his faith challenged. They left in a hurry.

  My son afterward gave me a lesson in grace and suggested that my multiple attacks on their faith was not the way to go to get them to listen.

  He was right. Hope to do better next time.
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  16

  Bite Model

  by lriddle80 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  has anyone ever shown a jw that came to your door the bite model of a cult?

  what happened?

  i am thinking of using that strategy if one comes a' knocking..

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  Vanderhoven7

  Diog

  Your list of cult charistics is impressive...I'm assuming you came up with it. Can I use it in my book? If yes, can you PM me how you wish me to source it?
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  13

  Pick the low-hanging fruit

  by stillin in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i happened to be standing nearby when an outside contractor, out of the goodness of his heart, approached a fellow worker and invited him to his church.

  the fellow worker is a known problem-drinker and actually, probably could use some discipline in his life.. anyhow, after a gushing account about how vibrant his church is and what a great guy the preacher is, he said that the lord moved him to speak with the problem-drinker.

  well, i'm feeling left out, neglected, dejected and finally chimed in.

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  Vanderhoven7

  "You don't have to be a believer to believe that it can work."

  True Simon, but you do have to be a believer if you think it will work for you.
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  143

  Thought Control (A simple test for JW's)

  by TD in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in george orwell's novel 'nineteen eighty-four' the capitulation of the principal protagonist is portrayed in his willingness to assent to the proposition that two and two make five.

  once he had denied objective reality, his mental conquest was complete and he was no longer truly the master of his own mind.

  nineteen eighty-four is in many ways, a very depressing read.. a charge commonly leveled at jehovah's witnesses is that the type of mind control envisioned by orwell has been and continues to be used on them.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Marked
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  25

  Child Abuse

  by AshleyCollins in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i am totally lost.

  can someone explain what is happening with this issue, please?i read online that gb is trying to coverup or defend themselves and their organization... like what happened?

  isn't this horrible thing happening in all of the religions over the world...for example catholic church has got multiple scandals...but i just don't get it.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Welcome to the forum Ashley.

  You are right. There are pedophiles in many organization including non religious ones.

  Just to sum things up. The pedophile problem is particulaly serious among Jehovah's Witnesses for a number of reasons

  1. Elders will not report or encourage Witnesses to report accusations of child sexual abuse to authorities unless it it mandated by the state. In fact they tend to discourage such reporting to protect the image of the organization

  2. Young girls are often grilled by untrained males (elders) for humiliating details of their ordeal.

  3. The two witness rule is applied before any action can be taken against the accused when pedophiles never carry out their misdeeds when others are around...whereas the authorities could easily find corroborating DNA evidence if they were involved in the case.

  So in effect, the WTS is failing to protect victims while at the same time protecting the pedophile and allowing him access to other children.

  It is interesting in scripture that the two witness rule was not applied when a woman was raped without witnesses in the field. So why don't they apply this scriptural distinction to young children? Wouldn't want to sully the image of God's organization is all I can come up with.
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  17

  Parenting through seperation

  by rathernotsay in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi everyone, was hoping i could share my experience, read other people's, and perhaps receive some advice regarding parenting through seperation.. so my wife of 8 odd years, and mother to my 3 children (8,6,3) and i have separated.

  largely due to our differences not just with religion but all areas of life.

  the breakup was amicable, and we remain somewhat friendly to one another while we work all this out.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Some really good advice here. Separation and divorce when children are involved is never easy and often expedentially more messy when religion is involved.

  Summing it up. Love your kids, do fun things with them when you have them, teach them critical thinking skills, share the truth as you believe it when they ask, speak well of their mom even though you disagree with her religion. Try to get their mom to agree to do the same and things may go easier for all involved.
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  17

  Parenting through seperation

  by rathernotsay in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi everyone, was hoping i could share my experience, read other people's, and perhaps receive some advice regarding parenting through seperation.. so my wife of 8 odd years, and mother to my 3 children (8,6,3) and i have separated.

  largely due to our differences not just with religion but all areas of life.

  the breakup was amicable, and we remain somewhat friendly to one another while we work all this out.

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  Vanderhoven7

  You haven't explained if you share custody or not. If she has full custody, good luck in promoting athiest thinking and undermining her parenting role.

  If you have partial custody my advice is to be honest with your children about your atheism and not invent a false polytheistic position and ultimately lose all credibility. Just say how and why you differ from their mother and leave it at that.
  

  Never lie to your children, or to anyone for that matter and you will have their respect later on.