Here is a rather revealing one
Vanderhoven7
JoinedPosts by Vanderhoven7
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Underming the Watchtower Video Clips
by Vanderhoven7 inthere are a few video clips or short videos that serve to undermine watchtower beliefs and practices.
i'll post one animated one that hits home rather successfully regarding baptism.
there is another one that shows a cartoon jehovah changing his mind again and again about whether or not he will resurrect the people of sodom and surrounding cities.
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Underming the Watchtower Video Clips
by Vanderhoven7 inthere are a few video clips or short videos that serve to undermine watchtower beliefs and practices.
i'll post one animated one that hits home rather successfully regarding baptism.
there is another one that shows a cartoon jehovah changing his mind again and again about whether or not he will resurrect the people of sodom and surrounding cities.
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Vanderhoven7
Actually I just found the video I was looking for. Unfortunately it seems someone hacked into the video and messed up the audio...and video as well
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Underming the Watchtower Video Clips
by Vanderhoven7 inthere are a few video clips or short videos that serve to undermine watchtower beliefs and practices.
i'll post one animated one that hits home rather successfully regarding baptism.
there is another one that shows a cartoon jehovah changing his mind again and again about whether or not he will resurrect the people of sodom and surrounding cities.
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Vanderhoven7
There are a few video clips or short videos that serve to undermine Watchtower beliefs and practices. I'll post one animated one that hits home rather successfully regarding baptism. There is another one that shows a cartoon Jehovah changing his mind again and again about whether or not he will resurrect the people of Sodom and surrounding cities. If you have that one, or others that highlight WTS idiocy, please post it here.
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How Much of the WT Teaching Did You Believe?
by Ding insome people on this forum have said that they never really believed any aspect of wt teaching, that they couldn't wait to get free of it all.. others seems to have been really gung ho, believing it all until something happened that got you questioning "the truth.".
i would say my own high water mark was about 50%, which put me squarely on the fence, trying to decide if i should be in or out.. how about you?.
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Vanderhoven7
Interesting and accurate imagery there LUHE
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January 2020 WT, earthly hope
by neat blue dog inone of the latest wts rehashes this core jw theology.
i know it's old hat, but i feel it's always worth pointing out, as it's one of the major things to wake me up and it's relatively easily proven using the bible alone.. throughout the bible, there aremany examples of men of faith who re-ceived holy spirit; yet, they did not havethe hope of living in heaven.
john the baptistwas “filled with holy spirit.” (luke 1:13-16) jesus said that there was no mangreater than john, but then he said thatjohn would not be included in the heav-enly kingdom.
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Vanderhoven7
Hi Smiddy,
The resurrection fulfills the promise that Death will lose its sting when God plagues the grave (Sheol). The idea of course is that Jesus took our eternal death sentence while on Calvary. The promise of a resurrection is found in both Old and New Testaments. A couple of OT passages come to mind.
Psalm 16:8 I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved. 9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. 10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Job 19:23 Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed in a book! 24 That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock for ever! 25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: 27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.
Mitch Chase, in a shareable article entitled, "Does the Old Testament Teach Resurrection Hope", writes:
The Gospels, Acts, Epistles, and Revelation all proclaim the blessed hope of our Lord’s return to bring the dead back to life and, in doing so, defeat the last enemy—Death (1 Cor. 15:26). It might seem like resurrection is an exclusively New Testament hope. But it you grab this hope and pull, you’ll find it has roots leading you deep into the Old Testament. God has provided resurrection hope to his people from the beginning.
Not everyone affirms resurrection hope in the Old Testament. The Sadducees denied it because they didn’t believe it was taught in the Pentateuch. But Jesus challenged them: “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God. . . . As for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God?” (Matt. 22:29, 31).
We need to read the Bible like Jesus did. He looked into the pages of the Old Testament and saw a God of life, whose power prevails over the grave.
Bodily Resurrection
The clearest Old Testament passage about a future bodily resurrection is Daniel 12:2: “And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” Both Jesus and Paul affirm its teaching in the New Testament (John 5:29; Acts 24:15).
Daniel isn’t the only prophet to speak this hope, however. Isaiah also prophesies physical resurrection:
Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy! For your dew is a dew of light, and the earth will give birth to the dead. (Isa. 26:19)
The dead are dust-dwelling sleepers, and resurrection will wake them up. Shifting metaphors, Isaiah depicts the earth giving birth. The tomb is a womb, and one day the dead will emerge in renewed bodily life.
Future bodily life isn’t just a truth to be spoken, but also a hope to be sung. The psalmist notes that while the wise and foolish both perish (Ps. 49:10), God “will ransom my soul from the power of Sheol, for he will receive me” (Ps. 49:15). Ransoming the soul from Sheol is receiving the whole person back from death (see Ps. 16:10; Acts 2:24–29). Moreover, for the author of Psalm 71, resurrection is a comfort. Reflecting on past calamities and future deliverance, he declares: “You who have made me see many troubles and calamities will revive me again; from the depths of the earth you will bring me up again” (Ps. 71:20). God will revive us by raising us.
Resurrection Fulfills God’s Promises
Without an understanding of resurrection in the Old Testament, God’s people would have died thinking God had failed to fulfill his promises. God promised the land of Canaan to the patriarchs and their offspring (Gen. 12:7; 13:15), yet Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob all died “not having received the things promised” (Heb. 11:13).
Me again: Now it seems clear to me that the OT is teaching a bodily resurrection. Now the question remains; is this a bodily resurrection to an earthly or heavenly existence? Unlike the New Testament promises, I don't see the option of a heavenly hope provided in the OT. And if not heaven, where else will those raised be standing?
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January 2020 WT, earthly hope
by neat blue dog inone of the latest wts rehashes this core jw theology.
i know it's old hat, but i feel it's always worth pointing out, as it's one of the major things to wake me up and it's relatively easily proven using the bible alone.. throughout the bible, there aremany examples of men of faith who re-ceived holy spirit; yet, they did not havethe hope of living in heaven.
john the baptistwas “filled with holy spirit.” (luke 1:13-16) jesus said that there was no mangreater than john, but then he said thatjohn would not be included in the heav-enly kingdom.
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Vanderhoven7
If you look hard enough there are passages in the Hebrew scriptures speaking of a resurrection of both the just and the unjust. But none, as far as I can see, point to rising to heavenly life. So I find it hard for anyone who accepts the OT but rejects the new to support a heavenly reward for the righteous.
Perhaps there are some Jewish scholars on-board that might care to enlighten me from the scriptures about their afterlife hopes? (not meant to be a challenge btw...only a request.)
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Overlapping Generation
by pandorasbox1914 inthe september 2015 broadcast had david splane explain matthew 24:34 “truly, i say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place”.
his explanation of this scripture was by means of a chart to indicate an overlapping generation.. .
no scripture was used to show the overlapping generation concept, and as a result it makes no sense.. to illustrate how crazy this concept is, look at the lyrics of the song my generation.. my generation.
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Vanderhoven7
Which generation was Christ referring to in Matthew 24:34?
The Greek word “genea” (pronounced ghen-eh-ah') appears thirteen times in Matthew's gospel. Four times it is used to delineate “one set of parents to the next”. Ignoring Matthew 24:34 for the moment, in every other appearance, including 6 of the instances Matthew places the definite article “this” (houtos) before “generation”, “this generation” (houtos genea), in context, clearly cover the same group of people -i.e. “Christ's contemporaries”
- Mt 11:16 But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places, who call out to the other children, (the persons then living contemporary with Christ)
- Mt 12:41 The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.
- (the persons then living contemporary with Christ)
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- Mt 12:42 "The Queen of the South will rise up with this generation at the judgment and will condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, something greater than Solomon is here. (the persons then living contemporary with Christ).
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- Mt 12:45 "Then it goes and takes along with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself.... That is the way it will also be with this evil generation ." (the persons then living contemporary with Christ)
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- Mt 17:17 And Jesus answered and said, "You unbelieving and perverted generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? ..." (the persons then living contemporary with Christ)
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- Mt 23:36 "Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
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- Reading Mt.23:36 in context again shows " the persons then living contemporary with Christ are being referred to:
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- 29. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and garnish the tombs of the righteous, 30 and say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we should not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31 Wherefore ye witness to yourselves, that ye are sons of them that slew the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. :33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of Gehenna? 34 Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: 35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. (the persons then living contemporary with Christ)
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- Mt 24:34
- "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
- What generation was Jesus referring to Matthew 24:34? (Obviously his own generation)
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Overlapping Generation
by pandorasbox1914 inthe september 2015 broadcast had david splane explain matthew 24:34 “truly, i say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place”.
his explanation of this scripture was by means of a chart to indicate an overlapping generation.. .
no scripture was used to show the overlapping generation concept, and as a result it makes no sense.. to illustrate how crazy this concept is, look at the lyrics of the song my generation.. my generation.
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Vanderhoven7
Picked this up somewhere:
PROGRESSIVE WATCHTOWER LIGHT ON “THIS GENERATION”
In 1968 the youngest of the 1914 generation were 15 years old.
"Jesus was obviously speaking about those who were old enough to witness with understanding what took place when the 'last days' began. ... Even if we presume that youngsters 15 years of age would be perceptive enough to realize the import of what happened in 1914, it would still make the youngest of 'this generation' nearly 70 years old today." (Awake! Oct 8, 1968 p13)
In 1978 the youngest of the 1914 generation were clearly not babies
"Thus, when it comes to the application in our time, the "generation" logically would not apply to babies born during World War I. It applies to Christ's followers and others who were able to observe that war and the other things that have occurred in fulfillment of Jesus' composite "sign."" (Watchtower Oct 1, 1978 p31)
In 1980 the youngest of the 1914 generation were revised to 10 years olds.
"As indicated by an article on page 56 of U.S. News & World Report of January 14, 1980, "If you assume that 10 is the age at which an event creates a lasting impression on a person's memory," then there are today more than 13 million Americans who have a "recollection of World War I."" (Watchtower Oct 15, 1980 p31)
In 1984 the youngest of the 1914 generation were reduced to babies.
"If Jesus used "generation" in that sense and we apply it to 1914, then the babies of that generation are now 70 years old or older. And others alive in 1914 are in their 80's or 90's, a few even having reached a hundred. There are still many millions of that generation alive." (Watchtower May 15, 1984 p5)
In 1988 the youngest were babies that were born in 1914
"Likewise today, most of the generation of 1914 has passed away. However, there are still millions on earth who were born in that year or prior to it." (Watchtower April 8, 1988 p14)
In 1995 age no longer was a factor in determining the 1914 generation
“Rather than provide a rule for measuring time, the term “generation” as used by Jesus refers principally to contemporary people of a certain historical period, with their identifying characteristics.” – Watchtower Nov 1, 1995, p.20.
Finally in 2010 the 1914 generation overlaps.
How, then, are we to understand Jesus’ words about “this generation”? He evidently meant that the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great
tribulation. That generation had a beginning, and it surely will have an end. The fulfillment of the various features of the sign clearly indicate that the tribulation must be near. By maintaining your sense of urgency and keeping on the watch, you show that you are keeping up with advancing light and following the leadings of holy spirit.—Mark 13:37. Watchtower 04/15, 2010 Article: Holy Spirit’s Role in the Outworking of Jehovah’s Purpose -
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Overlapping Generation
by pandorasbox1914 inthe september 2015 broadcast had david splane explain matthew 24:34 “truly, i say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place”.
his explanation of this scripture was by means of a chart to indicate an overlapping generation.. .
no scripture was used to show the overlapping generation concept, and as a result it makes no sense.. to illustrate how crazy this concept is, look at the lyrics of the song my generation.. my generation.
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Vanderhoven7
Here is a great little video shedding light on WTS versions of "this generation"!
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January 2020 WT, earthly hope
by neat blue dog inone of the latest wts rehashes this core jw theology.
i know it's old hat, but i feel it's always worth pointing out, as it's one of the major things to wake me up and it's relatively easily proven using the bible alone.. throughout the bible, there aremany examples of men of faith who re-ceived holy spirit; yet, they did not havethe hope of living in heaven.
john the baptistwas “filled with holy spirit.” (luke 1:13-16) jesus said that there was no mangreater than john, but then he said thatjohn would not be included in the heav-enly kingdom.
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Vanderhoven7
Can anyone show me a verse in the Hebrew scriptures that speaks of a heavenly hope for the righteous?
