Posts by Vanderhoven7

20

Resurrection after a death sentence in the OT?

by EdenOne in

i have a question for those more versed in biblical history than i. .

knowing that a belief in a resurrection on messianic times was a later jewish belief ... but still ... did the ot jews believe that someone served a capital punishment / death sentence would be elegible for future resurrection?.

meaning: when coding the torah, did its writers intended that the capital punishment also be understood as an obliteration for all eternity?.

Vanderhoven7

Wow...I never heard a JW say Hitler was coming back and given a chance to gain eternal life.

By saying they got the bad news right I was referring specifically to their view of final punishment as annihilation.

20

Resurrection after a death sentence in the OT?

by EdenOne in

i have a question for those more versed in biblical history than i. .

knowing that a belief in a resurrection on messianic times was a later jewish belief ... but still ... did the ot jews believe that someone served a capital punishment / death sentence would be elegible for future resurrection?.

meaning: when coding the torah, did its writers intended that the capital punishment also be understood as an obliteration for all eternity?.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Sea Breeze,

The dragon and the serpent are images of the devil. Death and hell are cast into the lake of fire, the lake is the image which literally is the second death or eternal death.

Death and the grave cannot be picked up and tossed anywhere. The beast is not literal since no beast has seven heads. You cannot literally torment an abstraction dispite the fact that it is personified.

One verse in the whole Bible which contradicts the sentence given Adam, dust thou aren't and to dust thou shall return. Apart from the ransom of Christ, no one would be eligible for a resurrection. And that one verse is in a book of symbols in a highly symbolic passage and yet many conclude much literal information from it.

We could start a thread on this...something like:

"Is the Watchtower Right About Hell?"

IMO The good news they got entirely wrong, the bad news for the wicked, they got right.

20

Resurrection after a death sentence in the OT?

by EdenOne in

i have a question for those more versed in biblical history than i. .

knowing that a belief in a resurrection on messianic times was a later jewish belief ... but still ... did the ot jews believe that someone served a capital punishment / death sentence would be elegible for future resurrection?.

meaning: when coding the torah, did its writers intended that the capital punishment also be understood as an obliteration for all eternity?.

Vanderhoven7

Right JoenB75,

This mortal must put on immortality...every Christian will be raised immortal. The only time eternal and torment are juxtaposed in the entire Bible is in a symbolic book (Rev. 20:10) and applies to the devil, the seven headed beast and the false prophet.

20

Resurrection after a death sentence in the OT?

by EdenOne in

i have a question for those more versed in biblical history than i. .

knowing that a belief in a resurrection on messianic times was a later jewish belief ... but still ... did the ot jews believe that someone served a capital punishment / death sentence would be elegible for future resurrection?.

meaning: when coding the torah, did its writers intended that the capital punishment also be understood as an obliteration for all eternity?.

Vanderhoven7

Sea Breeze,

None of the verses you brought out on the fate of the wicked speak of external consciousness, inate immortality or endless torment.

I recommend an inexpensive book that is available on Amazon entitled, "Eternal Torment-Image and Reality. It deals with every verse Old and New Testament...looking for eternal torment, eternal consciousness and immortality of the soul.

I know the author well. Check the back cover because you know him as well.

48

JWs are bigger and more successful than the Mormon church

by joe134cd in

just saw the following you tube video.

it’s 3 hours long, but thoroughly interesting.

if you want to save yourself 3 hours, basically the active mormon church is about 3 million.

Vanderhoven7

LDS Total population
16,663,663 United States6,592,195

LDS Total population

16,663,663

United States6,592,195

There are about 8.5 million adherents to Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide with 70% or 5,900,000 of them being Americans. Yes, close to 18 million attended the 2020 memorial...but apparently less than half identify as committed Witnesses.

16

Is the Bible of extraterrestrial origin?

by Vanderhoven7 in

highly illuminating video.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkhdyhmolmw.

i thought these bible cryptologists were all nuts.

this guy changed my mind..

Vanderhoven7

The author credits a heavenly source for the codes.

16

Is the Bible of extraterrestrial origin?

by Vanderhoven7 in

highly illuminating video.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkhdyhmolmw.

i thought these bible cryptologists were all nuts.

this guy changed my mind..

Vanderhoven7

Highly illuminating video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKHdyhmolMw

I thought these Bible cryptologists were all nuts. This guy changed my mind.

24

From Paradise Lost To Paradise Regained: Is the WTS the sole promoter of this doctrine?

by Pallbearer in

howdy folks,.

i am interested in learning whether or not the watchtower society is the only religious entity that teaches the "from paradise lost to paradise regained" idea.. the "idea" is that god's original purpose for man and the earth has not changed.

god purposed for adam and eve and their offspring to reproduce and fill the earth and live forever upon it; but the problem of sin entered into the picture and temporarily interrupted that purpose from being completed.

Vanderhoven7

Please....devil...big loser, not big lover.

If this was generated by my phone, I could always blame the self correcting feature.

24

From Paradise Lost To Paradise Regained: Is the WTS the sole promoter of this doctrine?

by Pallbearer in

howdy folks,.

i am interested in learning whether or not the watchtower society is the only religious entity that teaches the "from paradise lost to paradise regained" idea.. the "idea" is that god's original purpose for man and the earth has not changed.

god purposed for adam and eve and their offspring to reproduce and fill the earth and live forever upon it; but the problem of sin entered into the picture and temporarily interrupted that purpose from being completed.

Vanderhoven7

My take on this:

Perhaps the heavens may refer to earth's atmosphere which has been compromised by pollution. The new earth would probably resemble the original garden; heaven on earth so to speak, which will be complete at the close of the millennial reign when the Holy city, new Jerusalem descends from above.

It seems there will be limited sin during the millennium itself as Jesus and the church rule over cities and nations with a rod of iron until sin is totally eradicated.

God knew Adam would sin as Christ agreed to being slain before the foundation of the world.

Men and angels were given free will or Adam would not have a choice to be victorious over sin through Christ's sacrifice and partake in the divine nature. The angels who remained faithful were made immortal as the church will be in the resurrection and those of the nations that remain faithful, at the close of the millennium.

Sounds unbelievable.... but God is going to be the big winner and the devil the big lover.

That's all folks.

16

Daughter joining JW

by gary in

my fifty year-old daughter is studying to be a jehovah witness.

i am her catholics father.

just wondering because they are not allowed to associate with worldly people.

Vanderhoven7

My suggestion:

Send her an article on blood transfusions and ask her to explain the contradictions and faulty logic in the WT stand. Also there are threads on this site that will help. Also check out JWfacts.com for a fuller treatment of the subject.

She naturally will consult with her teacher who will demonstrate some eye-opening frustration.

Contrary to WTS teaching, the Bible does not prohibit blood transfusions. Witnesses like to say that transfusions are the same thing as eating blood. They often use the analogy of drinking alcohol and transfusions alcohol directly into the veins to support this idea. Would your doctor who had told you to abstain from drinking alcohol be upset if you had alcohol injected into your bloodstream. Why yes of course. But the analogy falls apart when you ask….Would your doctor, who had instructed you to abstain from meat be upset if you had a liver transplant? No because that life saving transplant would not be disobeying his instruction.

Moreover a blood transfusion is also an organ transplant. You may remember that the Watchtower outlawed all organ transplants from 1967 to 1980 when Jehovah apparently changed his mind on the subject. How many people suffered or died from obeying the Watchtower's medical quackery. What the Watchtower still does not want people to know is that with every major organ transplant billions of white blood cells are passed from donor to recipient. There are 12 times the number of white blood cells found in organs than in the bloodstream. Interestingly millions of white blood cells pass from mother to child when breastfeeding. Apparently Jehovah does not operate by the same rules as Jehovah's Witnesses.

Here are some questions and arguments I put together.

Blood Questions Basic

Where does the Bible outlaw Blood Transfusions? (Acts 15:29)

Why do you think aren't Orthodox Jews bothered by transfusions?

Could it be that the dietary laws in Acts 15 were temporary, designed to help unify Jews and Gentiles.

a. Which components of blood are acceptable and which ones are not? What is the scriptural basis for this distinction? (red cells, white cells, platelets, plasma are all banned)

b. Why plasma? Why is plasma (55% of blood volume) unacceptable when all of its elements are on the WTS acceptable list? Plasma is made up of 92 % water, albumin and fibrinogen proteins. What's the problem? It's like saying you can eat bread, cheese, mayo separately, but you can't eat a cheese sandwich.

c. Why white blood cells? Why are white blood cells banned when 97 percent of the white cells are not found in the blood stream but in organ tissues that are permitted by the WTS to transplant? Of course billions are transferred with every major transplant. By the way,12 times more white blood cells are found in a mother's milk than in the blood. Millions are passed from mother to child at every feeding. Seems Jehovah doesn't abide by the same rules JWs do.

d. Why is it sinful to store whole blood? Where is the biblical exception that allows JWs to have their blood stored in tubes for lab technicians to test? By the way, only blood of animals that were slain by Jews under the law was to be poured out. No one was slain/killed to acquire the blood stored in blood banks. (Lev.17:13)

e. Why is it alright to use the life-saving fractions (eg. Factors VIII and IX) derived from the donated and stored blood of others when these products were stored immorally? And aren't hemophiliac Witnesses leeches when they take these blood products without contributing to the blood bank themselves?

f. Where is the rule found that it is OK to remove blood from the body to be cleaned..as long as there is no interruption in it's flow back to the body?

g. Why did it take JWs over 70 years to find these rules out when they are so obvious to JWs now. And didn't Jesus appoint the Faithful Slave in 1919 when JWs were still being encouraged to work for the Red Cross as alternative service and give and receive transfusions when necessary?

.

Now regarding the actual eating of blood:

h. Can anything that goes into the mouth of a Christian defile him? Ro.14:14, Mk 7:15

i. Assuming that there is no one around with a weak conscience, should Christians ask questions of conscience about meat served in the home of a pagan idol worshiper who is known to eat things strangled? I Cor.10:27

j. Why do you think Jews could eat animals found dead in their fields (unbled) with relative impunity. They would merely have to wash their clothes and be unclean until evening.

Leviticus 11:38,39 - "If an animal that you are allowed to eat dies, anyone who touches its carcass will be unclean till evening. Anyone who eats some of its carcass must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening. Anyone who picks up the carcass must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening." Also Leviticus17:14,15