Posts by Vanderhoven7

86

The "Trinity" is not Biblical.

by Revealed in

simple.. you cannot find the word there (or many of the comical variations such as: a triune godhead, the triunity, co-equal god beings, godhead, a hypostaic union, divine essences, divine natures, a god-the-son, a god-the-ghost, hypostasis, homoousios, perichoresis , a godman, omnipresence, incarnation, a god who is a sacred mystery, a god 'in three persons', dual natures, a reincarnate god, a first person of the trinity, a second person of the trinity, a third person of the trinity, godness, a tri-unity or a multipersonal god), or any of the so-mentioned aspects.. jehovah identified himself (not 'themselves") as on one god, as did jesus and all the prophets.

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so, come, let us know of the simple twists of the clergy!.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Revealed,

Are you a Christian? Do you know Jesus Christ personally? Is he your Savior? Are you justified by his blood? Do you have eternal life?

86

The "Trinity" is not Biblical.

by Revealed in

simple.. you cannot find the word there (or many of the comical variations such as: a triune godhead, the triunity, co-equal god beings, godhead, a hypostaic union, divine essences, divine natures, a god-the-son, a god-the-ghost, hypostasis, homoousios, perichoresis , a godman, omnipresence, incarnation, a god who is a sacred mystery, a god 'in three persons', dual natures, a reincarnate god, a first person of the trinity, a second person of the trinity, a third person of the trinity, godness, a tri-unity or a multipersonal god), or any of the so-mentioned aspects.. jehovah identified himself (not 'themselves") as on one god, as did jesus and all the prophets.

.

so, come, let us know of the simple twists of the clergy!.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Revealed,

Welcome to the forum.

Are counting time on this largely ex-Witness site.

Is it OK now for JWs to talk to Apostates on anti-Watchtower forums?

Wonderful if that's the case.

24

The Deity of Jesus Christ

by Reciprocity in

fair warning, i am not a jehovah's witness believer, but i am curious about what it is you believe and why you believe it.

so i am interested in talking to you instead of reading about you from my own christian perspective.

after all, who understands what jehovah's witness believes better than a jehovah's witness?

Vanderhoven7

@Reciprocity

hint: strike 2, barking up the wrong tree fella.

Here is a better place for discussions on the Trinity.

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-you-Jehovahs-Witnesses-deny-the-deity-of-Christ?q=Jehovah%20Witness%20on%20deity%20of%20Christ

There are oodles of Jws on Quora who are chomping at the bit waiting for you!

See you there.

Vander

24

The Deity of Jesus Christ

by Reciprocity in

fair warning, i am not a jehovah's witness believer, but i am curious about what it is you believe and why you believe it.

so i am interested in talking to you instead of reading about you from my own christian perspective.

after all, who understands what jehovah's witness believes better than a jehovah's witness?

Vanderhoven7

Hi Reciprocity,

Welcome to the forum.

Just for your information, this is an ex-Jehovah Witness Forum. The rare Jehovah's Witness that shows up here is challenged by many who reject the Bible altogether.

Translation, you won't get much traction or debate with this subject; but you probably will needlessly provoke considerable criticism from an outspoken Atheist segment herein.

Better to start by introducing yourself and tell us where you are coming from and then feel free to comment on what you find before launching out with faith challenges.

Just a suggestion from a born-again believer.

Peace

Vanderhoven

21

Watchtower Disparages the Bible

by Vanderhoven7 in

i'm looking for wts quotations that contrast with ii timothy 3:15-16 whereby they downplay scripture.. here is one from way back..

"...people cannot see the divine plan in studying the bible by itself...if he then lays them [scripture studies] aside and ignores them and goes to the bible alone, though he has understood his bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness.

on the other hand, if he had merely read the scripture studies with their references, and had not read a page of the bible, as such, he would be in the light at the end of the two years, because he would have the light of the scriptures," (watchtower, sept. 15, 1910, p. 298).

Vanderhoven7

More of the same disparagement

“They say that it is sufficient to read the bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such ‘Bible reading,’ they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom’s clergy were teaching 100 years ago.” (The Watchtower, August 15, 1981, pp. 28-29)

“Furthermore, not only do we find that people cannot see the divine plan in studying the Bible by itself, but we see, also, that if anyone lays the SCRIPTURE STUDIES aside, even after he has used them, after he has become familiar with them, after he has read them for ten years—if he then lays them aside and ignores them and goes to the Bible alone, though he has understood his Bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness.” (The Watch Tower, September 15, 1910, p. 298, Watchtower Reprints, p. 4685)

“On occasion opposers will question the various teachings that Jehovah’s people hold in common … They will declare that all one needs to do is to read the Bible. But Christendom has been reading the Bible for centuries.” (The Watchtower, March 1, 1983, p. 25)

“We must not lose sight of the fact that God is directing his organization … To turn away from Jehovah and his organization, to spurn the direction of ‘the faithful and discreet slave,’ and to rely simply on personal Bible reading and interpretation is to become like a solitary tree in a parched land.” (The Watchtower, June 1, 1985, pp. 19-20)

“Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do.” (The Watchtower, December 1, 1981, p. 27)

21

Watchtower Disparages the Bible

by Vanderhoven7 in

i'm looking for wts quotations that contrast with ii timothy 3:15-16 whereby they downplay scripture.. here is one from way back..

"...people cannot see the divine plan in studying the bible by itself...if he then lays them [scripture studies] aside and ignores them and goes to the bible alone, though he has understood his bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness.

on the other hand, if he had merely read the scripture studies with their references, and had not read a page of the bible, as such, he would be in the light at the end of the two years, because he would have the light of the scriptures," (watchtower, sept. 15, 1910, p. 298).

Vanderhoven7

The Bible is inadequate according to the Faithful Slave.

“Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible. For this reason the Bible cannot be properly understood without Jehovah’s visible organization in mind.” (The Watchtower, October 1, 1967, p. 587)

“We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the Scriptural guidance we need outside the ‘faithful and discreet slave’ organization.” (The Watchtower, February 15, 1981, p. 19)

“Does ‘the faithful and discreet slave’ [Watchtower organization] endorse independent groups of Witnesses who meet together to engage in Scriptural research or debate? (Matt. 24:45, 47). No, it does not. And yet, in various parts of the world, a few associates of our organization have formed groups to do independent research on Bible-related subjects. Some have pursued an independent group study of Biblical Hebrew and Greek so as to analyze the accuracy of the New World Translation. … They have also held conferences and produced publications to present their findings and to supplement what is provided at our Christian meetings and through our literature. … Thus, ‘the faithful and discreet slave’ does not endorse any literature, meetings, or Web sites that are not produced or organized under its oversight … For those who wish to do extra Bible study and research, we recommend that they explore Insight on the Scriptures, All Scripture Is Inspired of God and Beneficial, and our other publications.” (Kingdom Ministry, September 2007, p. 3)

32

A bit of history ... for you history buffs

by RR in

jw
friends

i wasn't sure where to post this.

not sure why i'm posting this.

it's only going to add fuel to the fire.

Vanderhoven7

I have met people who say that babies who die will burn forever for failing to be born again. Others say they automatically go to heaven because they have not reached an age of accountability.

One of my favorite stories comes from Germany during the height of WWII. A Jewish family was separated when being herded out of the train cars into the extermination camp at Auschwitz. A little boy broke out of his line and ran to see his father in another line. As the soldiers ordered him back into his own line, his son asked, "Will I see you after the showers Father?" The Father hesitated and replied, "Yes Son, after the showers." The Christian writing this commented, "If that's not true, I could have thought of a better gospel".

1

Informative Video

by Vanderhoven7 in

interesting video to pass on to those being influenced by jehovah's witnesses.

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https://youtu.be/gdwhdj7plwo.

Vanderhoven7

Interesting video to pass on to those being influenced by Jehovah's Witnesses.

https://youtu.be/gDwHdj7plWo

21

Watchtower Disparages the Bible

by Vanderhoven7 in

i'm looking for wts quotations that contrast with ii timothy 3:15-16 whereby they downplay scripture.. here is one from way back..

"...people cannot see the divine plan in studying the bible by itself...if he then lays them [scripture studies] aside and ignores them and goes to the bible alone, though he has understood his bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness.

on the other hand, if he had merely read the scripture studies with their references, and had not read a page of the bible, as such, he would be in the light at the end of the two years, because he would have the light of the scriptures," (watchtower, sept. 15, 1910, p. 298).

Vanderhoven7

Hi Drearyweather,

Of course, those with only the OT scriptures might indeed need to have someone explain that Jesus was the Messiah being talked about. This is exactly what the Apostles began doing at Pentecost.

But now we have the New Testament which clarifies that Jesus is the Messiah that was cut off for our salvation. People can respond in faith to the written word just as they could to the spoken word at Pentecost. The scriptures are sufficient today to reveal Christ and thoroughly equip the believer. Ii Timothy 3:15-16

A man stranded on a deserted island with only a Bible can come to saving faith in Christ without the church or an organization of men.

21

Watchtower Disparages the Bible

by Vanderhoven7 in

i'm looking for wts quotations that contrast with ii timothy 3:15-16 whereby they downplay scripture.. here is one from way back..

"...people cannot see the divine plan in studying the bible by itself...if he then lays them [scripture studies] aside and ignores them and goes to the bible alone, though he has understood his bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness.

on the other hand, if he had merely read the scripture studies with their references, and had not read a page of the bible, as such, he would be in the light at the end of the two years, because he would have the light of the scriptures," (watchtower, sept. 15, 1910, p. 298).

Vanderhoven7

Do Jehovah's Witnesses believe that people can be saved and sanctified through reading and studying the Bible alone without knowing anything about the Watchtower organization?

Dean writes:

Absolutely not.

NOBODY can understand the Bible without the Jehovah’s false Witnesses’ watchtower organization of MEN telling them what the Bible means

Their founder once said that if you did just read the Bible alone, without his or the organizations’ input, you would fall into “apostate teachings”.

Isn’t that extremely amusing?!

If i read the Bible and Bible ALONE, i will believe “apostate teachings”....

"Jehovah gives us sound counsel through his Word and through his organization, using the publications provided by “the faithful and discreet slave.” ( ie: the watchtower organization ) (Matthew 24:45; 2 Timothy 3:16) How foolish to reject good advice and insist on our own way! We “must be swift about hearing” when Jehovah, “the One teaching men knowledge,” counsels us through his channel of communication.—James 1:19; Psalm 94:10."

Watchtower, 1973 July 1st p.402 "Jehovah’s organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by God’s holy spirit or force (Zech,4:6) Only this organization functions for Jehovah’s purpose and to his praise. To it alone God’s Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book.", "How very much true Christians appreciate associating with the only organization on earth that understands the ‘deep things of God’! Direction by God’s spirit enables Jehovah’s servants to have divine light in a world of spiritual darkness."

"Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization. ( ie: the watchtower organisation )" (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22)

"Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 )

"Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization ( ie: the watchtower ), not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible." (The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1967, p. 587.)

"All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.( ie: the watchtower )" (The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1994, p. 8.)

KINGDOM MINISTRY SEPTEMBER 2007, QUESTIONS BOX

Does “the faithful and discreet slave” endorse independent groups of Witnesses who meet together to engage in Scriptural research or debate?—Matt. 24:45, 47.

No, it does not. And yet, in various parts of the world, a few associates of our organization have formed groups to do independent research on Bible-related subjects. Some have pursued an independent group study of Biblical Hebrew and Greek so as to analyze the accuracy of the New World Translation. Others explore scientific subjects related to the Bible. They have created Web sites and chat rooms for the purpose of exchanging and debating their views. They have also held conferences and produced publications to present their findings and to supplement what is provided at our Christian meetings and through our literature.

Throughout the earth, Jehovah’s people are receiving ample spiritual instruction and encouragement at congregation meetings, assemblies, and conventions, as well as through the publications of Jehovah’s organization. Under the guidance of his holy spirit and on the basis of his Word of truth, Jehovah provides what is needed so that all of God’s people may be “fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought” and remain “stabilized in the faith.” (1 Cor. 1:10; Col. 2:6, 7) Surely we are grateful for Jehovah’s spiritual provisions in these last days. Thus, “the faithful and discreet slave” does not endorse any literature, meetings, or Web sites that are not produced or organized under its oversight.—Matt. 24:45-47.