wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
@ Fisherman
Sorry, but you are still speaking gobbledygook. Try making sense.
How are you praying that your flight will not be in winter or on a Sabbath Day? Let me start the prayer for you...
"Dear Jehovah, when I flee Jerusalem and head for the mountains beyond Judea, please let it not be......."
Finish that will you... without more gobbledygook!
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
@Fisherman
Sorry, but you are speaking gobbledygook. Try making sense.
Note that Jesus ' words. The Parousia would take place in normal times, while unsuspecting people were having fun, not during a world War. No man would be aware as in the days of Noah. Of course Jesus had no idea that Barbour and Russell could figure 1874 out. Trust the scriptures, not your organizations speculations.
36¶But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
Hi DJW
I believe Jesus encouraged them to pray for mitigating factors for their escape from Jerusalem's destruction. The gates of the city would be locked on the Sabbath and restrictions were placed on travel on the Sabbath for those in Judaea. Of course winter's cold would inhibit escape as well. And mothers with babies would have great difficulty making it to the safety of the mountains beyond Judaea.
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
Hi Fisherman
And your point is...?
I notice you did not bother to quote the critical verses that show that the timing of the Parousia would not be known. Let me highlight them for you.
Note that Jesus ' Parousia would take place in normal times, while unsuspecting people were having fun, not during a world War.
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
Hi Fisherman,
If there was a sign for the parousia Jesus would have told his disciples. But since there wasn't a sign he said, "at a time you think not the Son of Man cometh." But of that day knoweth no man. Matthew 25:36, 44
But of course Barbour and Charles Russell heralded 1874 for the Parousia based on the signs Christ never gave. 1914 was an afterthought made around 1930. Rutherford looked back because Jesus said when you see WW1 you will know I have invisibly returned.
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
Hi Scholar,
In your view, is Matthew 24:34 referring to the 1914 generation or to his own generation or to both?
And are you praying that your flight will not occur in winter or on a Sabbath day?
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
<<1914 is right there at the very centre of the Olivet Discourse>>
False! 1914 is nowhere to be found in the Olivet Discourse.
So Scholar, do you bring a jacket with you when you work on your roof? Or do you plan to disobey Jesus and run into the house to get your jacket when fleeing time comes?
Do you, like Fisherman, pray that your flight will not be in winter or on a Sabbath Day? Why or why not?
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
Hi Fisherman,
"You don't see it, Van."
You are right, I do not see what is not there.
I only see what is there
And 1914 is not there. It is only there to those who are willing to accept a man-made organization's convoluted assumption based non-scholarly speculations. And that's the truth.
"Nothing more I can say"
Yes, there is something more you can say. You can tell me what Jesus' hearers would have prayed about the Sabbath and about winter to mitigate the conditions of their escape and then what you are literally praying today about the poetic Sabbath Day and poetic Winter. What exactly are you praying?
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
Fisherman
You must have missed it then. Check back several posts.
Clark summarizes verse 30 this way:
Verse 30
Then shall appear the sign of the Son of man - The plain meaning of this is, that the destruction of Jerusalem will be such a remarkable instance of Divine vengeance, such a signal manifestation of Christ's power and glory, that all the Jewish tribes shall mourn, and many will, in consequence of this manifestation of God, be led to acknowledge Christ and his religion. By της γης, of the land, in the text, is evidently meant here, as in several other places, the land of Judea and its tribes, either its then inhabitants, or the Jewish people wherever found.
Jesus clearly did answer all their questions. Verses 36-44 answered their concerns about the parousia.
.
So you pray that your flight will not be in winter or on a Sabbath day?
What do you think in Matthew 24:20 Jesus was asking those listening back then to pray?
What do you think Jesus wanted JWs to pray today?
Was Jesus instruction meant literally for those listening to him and symbolically for us today?
It would be interesting to see a side-by-side sample of the two prayers. Perhaps you might share how you pray that your flight won't be in winter or on a Sabbath day.
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
Hi Scholar,
A good book you might want to read is "Matthew 24" by Marcelus Kik some of which I share on this and other verses.
30.
AND THEN SHALL APPEAR THE SIGN OF THE SON OF
MAN IN HEAVEN: AND
THEN SHALL ALL THE TRIBES
OF THE EARTH MOURN, AND THEY SHALL SEE
THE SON
OF MAN COMING IN THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN WITH
POWER AND
GREAT GLORY.
(See Jer.21:5 Is.19:1)
Note
that it is "the sign of the Son of Man in heaven", not the
Son
of man visiting the earth. At the destruction of Jerusalem,
the sign
or precursor to His coming to destroy was found in the
fulfillment
of these predicted calamities and finally the
surrounding of
Jerusalem by the Roman armies. Of course as these
calamities and
ultimate destruction, befell them, the tribes would
mourn. The
Jews were eventually left without temple, city,
sacrifice or
priesthood as was prophesied by Daniel.
THEN SHALL APPEAR THE SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN
"The plain meaning of this is, that the destruction of Jerusalem will be
such a remarkable instance of Divine vengeance, such a signal
manifestation of Christ’s power and glory, that all the Jewish tribes
shall mourn, and many will, in consequence of this manifestation of
God, be led to acknowledge Christ and his religion. By της γης, of
the land, in the text, is evidently meant here, as in several other places,
the land of Judea and its tribes, either its then inhabitants, or the
Jewish people wherever found."
AND
THEY SHALL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN
THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN WITH
POWER AND GREAT
GLORY.
Does
the phrase "coming (erchomai
not
parousia) in the clouds"
necessarily refer to a personal
coming to earth? We should not
read that thought into the text.
Isaiah 19:1 states "See the Lord rides
on a swift cloud and is
coming to Egypt: and the idols of Egypt
shall be moved at His
presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in
the midst of it"
Although this verse speaks of the Lord riding on a
cloud and of
His presence, we know that the Egyptians did not see
the Lord in a
personal and visible way. The expression is rather
used to
indicate a coming in judgment against Egypt. Jesus
coming in the
clouds against Israel thus refers to a similar kind of
judgment.
The
clouds of heaven obscure or shut heaven from man's view.
They were
to see the Lord Jesus coming to judgment with power.
This power
was manifest in the destruction. The word glory refers
to the
visible display of his honor, power and majesty.
That
Jesus destroyed the city in 70 AD is accurate. As Daniel
9:27
reveals; because of the over spreading of abominations, he,
the
Lord and Messiah himself would make it desolate (Titus
merely
being his instrument.) Confirmation is found in Jesus'
exclusion parables.
Mt.21: 40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh
(ἔρχομαι erchomai), what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked
men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which
shall render him the fruits in their seasons. See also Lu.20:15,16
"The timing on this is relevant this coming in vengeance, would climax the tribulation and occur in the lifespan of Christ's own generation. Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming (ἔρχομαι erchomai) in his kingdom. (Mt.10:23 Lu.9:27)
Finally, in the often-overlooked trial scene in 26:64, Jesus says to the high priest that “from now on you will see the son of man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
The key phrase in this passage is “from now on”, which is about as close as Matthew comes to the outright investment of glory which John gives to the cross when he attests Jesus as saying things like “Now the son of man is glorified”, “Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out”, and “When I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all people to myself” (John 12:31, 32; 13:31). The conviction which both Matthew and John unambiguously express is that the exaltation of the son of man would be seen not merely at the end of history but also in the matrix of events unfolding from his messianic work in the middle of history."
