Posts by Vanderhoven7

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Vanderhoven7

Hi Jammer,

Do you conclude thst the following two verses apply to Christ's generation exclusively?
"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." Mt 24:21

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Mt 24:34

((I am in a way but not totally. The whole multitude of men living at the same time, Mat 24:34; Mar 13:30; Luk 1:48; 21:32; Phl 2:15, and especially of those of the Jewish race living at the same period, Mat 11:16, ))

Ok you apply both verses to the 1914 generation exclusively but include those living around that time period as Vines Expository Dictionary states.

So am I correct in concluding that to you these two verses do not apply to Christ's generation?

14

Watchtower Dishonesty aka Theocratic Warfare

by Vanderhoven7 in

i would like to collect as many instances of watchtower dishonesty and pretense as possible.

here is one from a bulgarian as an example of what i'm looking for.. are jehovah's witnesses disfellowshipped for receiving blood in a hospital?.

helge fauskanger writes: "if witnesses can’t convince the elders that they are utterly “repentant” for this vampiric lapse of theirs, they will be held to have disassociated themselves from the religion — even if they never said a word about wanting to leave it!

Vanderhoven7

Hi Punky

I'd forgotten about this thread.

Yes, I do get frustrated when I look for clarity and I get evasive answers...that are really attempts to hide the more unsavory or unfounded "truths" their religion teaches.

Thanks for the empathy Punky!

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Vanderhoven7

Clark on Matthew 24 verses 21 and 29

Verse 21

For then shall be great tribulation - No history can furnish us with a parallel to the calamities and miseries of the Jews: - rapine, murder, famine, and pestilence within: fire and sword, and all the horrors of war, without. Our Lord wept at the foresight of these calamities; and it is almost impossible for any humane person to read the relation of them in Josephus without weeping also. St. Luke, Luke 21:22, calls these the days of vengeance, that all things which were written might be fulfilled.

Verse 29

Immediately after the tribulation, etc. - Commentators generally understand this, and what follows, of the end of the world and Christ's coming to judgment: but the word immediately shows that our Lord is not speaking of any distant event, but of something immediately consequent on calamities already predicted: and that must be the destruction of Jerusalem.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Vanderhoven7

Hi Scholar,

<<Absolutely, a 'great tribulation (without the definite article) would foreshadow 'the Great Tribulation described in the next pericope, vss. 29-31 and 'the great tribulation' Rev.7: 14>>.

No, you can't have it both ways. The tribulation (without the adjective great) of verse 29 is referent to the unrepeatable great tribulation of verse 21 which could not foreshadow a greater tribulation.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.....

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Note Rev 7:14 is also about a "great tribulation" (without the definite article)

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Vanderhoven7

Hi Jammer,

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." Mt 24:21

1. Are you saying verse 21 applies to the 1914 generation exclusively?

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Mt 24:34

2. Are you saying verse 34 applies to the 1914 generation exclusively?

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Vanderhoven7

Scholar

Good... you agree with me that Jesus was warning people in his generation exclusively to pray that their flight not be in winter or on a Sabbath Day? Now, look at the context of these specific prayers.

Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The reason they were to pray these things was because the great tribulation was coming and these things would hamper their escape to regions beyond Judaea.

So what you are admitting is that the Great Tribulation took place in the first century.

You can't have it both ways.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Vanderhoven7

Scholar

Van: And are you praying that your flight will not occur in winter or on a Sabbath day?

Scholar: No

So Scholar...are you saying that Jesus was warning people in his generation exclusively to pray that their flight not be in winter or on a Sabbath Day?

17

BLONDIE - It's wonderful to hear from you again

by Listener in

jw
friends

blondie, it's so nice to hear from you after a two year break.

i didn't notice your return 10 days ago.

i'm so excited to read all your new posts.. i hope life has treated you well over the last two years.. i think about you every now and then and others do as well.

Vanderhoven7

Good to see Blondie and Lee back on the forum!

My bet is that Ray was ready to meet his Maker when he left us.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Vanderhoven7

@Waton

e) the anointed generation (I don't think this is still an option)

f) the overlapping generation (but still the 1914 generation)

Interestingly, every time Jesus specified (hutos genea) this generation in all 4 gospels, it always referred to his own unbelieving generation.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Vanderhoven7

Hi Jammer,

I have run into those that say the temple's destruction was not complete because the retaining wall is still there; so this is still future. Glad you are not one of them.

So can you identify the generation you believe Jesus was referring in Matthew 24:34?

a. the 1914 generation exclusively

b. both the 1914 generation and Jesus' generation

c. solely Jesus' generation

d, other, please identify