Posts by Vanderhoven7

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Vanderhoven7

Well phrased DJW, especially your last paragraph.

Let me add a bit to "our" question.

Why do you think God allowed or avoided preventing or perhaps planned that his full name to be completely excluded from all ancient manuscripts of the NT?"

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Jesus, the Way, the Truth and the Life is all but ignored at the kingdom halls of Jehovah's Witnesses and anyone using the actual name of Jesus more than that of Jehovah will be looked on with suspect.

Let's review

Who is the way, the truth and the life? (John 14:6)

To whose name would Christians witness? (Acts 1:8)

For whose name would Christians be hated? (Matt. 10:22)

For whose name would Christians be reproached? (1 Peter 4:14)

For whose name would Christians be persecuted and killed? (Luke 21:12,16,17)

For whose name would Christians make sacrifices? (Matt. 19:29)

By whose name alone were people be saved? (Acts 4:12)

By whose name were people healed? (Acts 3:6; Acts 4:10)

By whose name were demons expelled? (Luke 10:17; Acts 16:18)

By whose name would people receive Holy Spirit? (John 14:26)

By whose name would believers be named? (Isa. 62:2; Acts 11:26)

By whose name would people be reconciled to God? (Rom. 5:10; 2 Cor. 5:18)

By whose name would people be forgiven their sins? (Matt. 26:28; Acts 2:38; Eph. 1:7)

By whose name would people be resurrected (John 5:28)

In whose name would people pray to God? (John 15:16)

In whose name would people be baptized? (Acts 2:38, 8:16, 10:48, 19:5, 22:16)

In whose name were people to put faith? (John 2:23)

In whose name would people be judged? (John 5:27)

In whose name was Paul commissioned to preach? (Acts 9:14-16)

In whose name were Christians to gather together? (Matt. 18:20)

In whose name will every knee in heaven and on earth bend? (Philippians 2:10)

Jesus - not Jehovah

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Vanderhoven7

Well it seems to me that some on this forum think that Jesus name is getting sufficient coverage and consideration at kingdom halls across the globe.

And when I say "name" I mean person, not merely a bunch of syllables.

My take is that Jesus is all but marginalized by so called Jehovah's Witnesses and relationship with Jesus aka Michael the super angel is not only not promoted but also not possible .

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Vanderhoven7

@ Wondrment,

Why do you think God made sure His full name did not appear once in the NT, not once on the lips of Jesus nor the apostles?

My take is that God wanted His Son's name to be glorified among men above every other name that is named. So He made sure there was no salvation outside of that name; that unless we receive the Son we cannot be adopted as sons, and unless we eat His flesh and drink his blood we will have no life in us.

Jesus says: "Come unto me" while the Watchtower says, "Come to Jehovah's organization to be saved"

33

Do you think the Watchtower is right about about eternal punishment of the wicked?

by Vanderhoven7 in

atheists believe death is the end of personal existence.

but for those who believe there is life after death, what do you think is the nature of final punishment?

in other words do you agree with the atheists and the watchtower society or is there eternal ongoing conscious punishment awaiting the wicked.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Ding,

I don't believe the account of Lazarus and the Rich man is a parable a la Watchtower. . But neither do I think the literary form is historical narration.

https://youtu.be/2Y-p9Ol_Shs

33

Do you think the Watchtower is right about about eternal punishment of the wicked?

by Vanderhoven7 in

atheists believe death is the end of personal existence.

but for those who believe there is life after death, what do you think is the nature of final punishment?

in other words do you agree with the atheists and the watchtower society or is there eternal ongoing conscious punishment awaiting the wicked.

Vanderhoven7

There is a book available on Amazon entitled, "Eternal Torment - Image and Reality". I know the author well. The author goes through the entire Bible looking for eternal torment and here is his summary:

IN PART I OF OUR STUDY WE PROBED FOR ETERNAL TORMENT BY SIFTING THROUGH THE DUST AND ASHES OF:

A. Sheol (Old Testament)

- We found no hard evidence for ongoing torment in any of the 65 Sheol passages.

B. Hades (New Testament)

- We examined all 11 "Hades" passages, 10 of which gave no support for the idea of torment of any duration. Although we found one dramatic passage of scripture (Luke 16:19-31) that spoke very clearly of extreme pain and anguish after death, no clarification was made of the duration of that pain. In addition there was powerful evidence within the text itself that suggested the entire account did not represent historical narration.

C. Gehenna (New Testament)

- We looked at all 12 passages that used the term Gehenna. Although we didn't find any synonyms for pain or torment in any of the passages, we did find some rather perplexing imagery including; Everlasting Fire, Gehenna Fire, Unquenchable Fire and Undying Worms. However, all of these images, if interpreted in the light of other scriptural passages, can be readily explained without reference to ongoing suffering of any kind.

IN PART II OF OUR STUDY WE PROBED FOR ETERNAL TORMENT BY SIFTING THROUGH THE FIRE AND FLAME OF:

D. Old Testament Eschatology

The predominant punishment imagery of the Old Testament is unquestionably that of destruction. Endless torment of immortal souls is simply not found in the Hebrew scriptures.

E. The Gospels

We found considerable "weeping and gnashing" imagery in the exclusion parables of the gospel, which would be expected of the condemned as they are faced with rejection at Christ's coming. Nonetheless, the duration of that weeping and gnashing is consistently absent. Matthew 25, the parable of the sheep and the goats, speaks of eternal fire and eternal punishment. However, this language, by itself, does not designate the nature of that punishment. In order to prove eternal torment from this passage it would first be necessary to smuggle the word "conscious" into the text.

F. Acts and the Epistles

Destruction, rather than torment imagery, is rampant in the Epistles. Certainly, as would be expected, God's wrath will not spare the wicked vexation and distress on the day of judgment, but again, endless duration of such distress is simply not found.

G. Revelation

There is one explicit reference to eternal torment in Revelation 20:10 which is applied to the unholy trinity of devil, beast and false prophet. However, the literal nature of this torment becomes suspect as we consider the verse itself, the surrounding scriptures, as well as similar judgment imagery in the Old Testament.

33

Do you think the Watchtower is right about about eternal punishment of the wicked?

by Vanderhoven7 in

atheists believe death is the end of personal existence.

but for those who believe there is life after death, what do you think is the nature of final punishment?

in other words do you agree with the atheists and the watchtower society or is there eternal ongoing conscious punishment awaiting the wicked.

Vanderhoven7

This is true. Their religion is not biblical. However even a broken analog clock is right twice a day.😄

33

Do you think the Watchtower is right about about eternal punishment of the wicked?

by Vanderhoven7 in

atheists believe death is the end of personal existence.

but for those who believe there is life after death, what do you think is the nature of final punishment?

in other words do you agree with the atheists and the watchtower society or is there eternal ongoing conscious punishment awaiting the wicked.

Vanderhoven7

Atheists believe death is the end of personal existence. But for those who believe there is life after death, what do you think is the nature of final punishment? In other words do you agree with the Atheists and the Watchtower Society or is there eternal ongoing conscious punishment awaiting the wicked. This is not really about what happens between death and the final judgment, but bring that up if you wish.

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