Well, knowing and even using the name Yaho is not critical to salvation. What is critical is knowing, i.e., having a personal faith-based relationship with both Father and Son through regeneration. You must be born again as a free gift of God or you cannot enter the kingdom of His Son. Those who come to the Son will have the Father revealed to them.
Vanderhoven7
JoinedPosts by Vanderhoven7
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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Vanderhoven7
@DJW
You can Google "Let God Be True" Watchtower pdf and you will get a few download sites.
Try
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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Vanderhoven7
For God ... hath committed all judgment unto the Son: THAT ALL MEN SHOULD HONOR THE SON EVEN AS THEY HONOR THE FATHER. He that honoureth not the Son, honoureth not the Father which hath sent Him. Jn.5:22,23
Witnesses argue that Jesus Christ is not entitled to the unqualified or unlimited worship due the Father. But by denying the Son reverent homage or service paid to God they can only ascribe to Him instead, recognition, honor, respect given to men.
Relative honor to God through an angel was reproved in these words: "Be careful! Do not do that!...Worship God." Revelation 19:10; 22:8, 9, NWT) 'Let God Be True', 1952 edition p. 151
The distinctions Witnesses make in worship due the Father and Son are totally extra-biblical and not in keeping with Apostolic teaching and practice.
What is it that distinguishes that Christ is not to be genuinely worshiped as the Father is worshiped?
Language of Scripture?:
"Proskyneo" is consistently translated as "worship" in the King James. "Proskyneo" is applied 21 times to the Father and 17 times to the Son. The only fair conclusion we can come to here is that the language of scripture does not distinguish that Christ is not to be genuinely worshiped as the Father is worshiped.
Scriptural Example?:
There is not one example of the disciples or anyone else in scripture limiting their expression of worship of Christ. Jesus never rebuked the disciple for improper proskyneo of Himself. only the self proclaimed religious authorities objected to Jesus being honored as the Father was honored. They proclaimed vigorously, saying such things as, "You make yourself equal with God" and "Only God can forgive sins" etc. To them, no man should claim the attributes or prerogatives of God. So not only does scriptural language, but also scriptural example fails to distinguish that Christ is not to be genuinely worshiped.
Scriptural Instruction?:
There are no proscriptive instructions defining relative proskyneo of Christ, nor are there restrictive commandments, limiting the proskyneo of the Son. So the alleged distinction in meaning of proskyneo of Father and Son is not clarified by a distinction in scriptural terminology or by scriptural example or by scriptural commandment either prescriptive or restrictive. All restrictions proposed by any religious authority are really extra-biblical (i.e. the commandments of men). The truth is that ALL MEN SHOULD HONOR THE SON EVEN AS THEY HONOR THE FATHER (Jn.5:22, 23). Christians can and the disciples could, never honor Jesus too highly.
Witnesses argue that Matthew 4:10 excludes unqualified worship of the Son. "You shall worship the Lord your God and him ONLY shall you serve". (Matt 4:10) That is simply not true. The exclusive element of this instruction rests on the last phrase and yet we are called to be servants of Christ. If we substitute the word "Honor" for worship in Matthew 4:10, so that it read "You shall honor the Lord your God and him only shall you serve", would the verse inform Christians that they should not give identical honor to the Son?
Form and Content of worship?:
"...to worship Christ in any form cannot be wrong." (W.T. March 1880. p.83)
Can the alleged distinction in meaning of 'proskyneo' when applied to the Son be established by the form or content of worship displayed by the disciples/apostles? Do not the following constitute elements of proskyneo in terms of form and content that can legitimately be a part of the proskyneo rendered to the Son:
a. bowing the knee to Jesus while confessing Him as Lord? Phil.2:9-11
b. prostrating oneself completely before Jesus? Rev.5:8
c. fellowship or commune with Jesus, sharing our personal aspirations and hopes? I Jn.1:3
d. coming to Jesus for relief of personal burdens and cares? Mat. 11:28
e. calling on the name of Jesus, addressing Him personally as Lord? Acts 9:14, I Cor.1:2
f. praying personally to Jesus, petitioning Him for self and others? Acts 7:59-60 Jn.14:14
g. glorifying Jesus by praise? Ps.50:23 Jn.16:14, Mat.21:14-16
h. honoring Jesus verbally by ascribing worth to Him?
eg."To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever. Rev.5:13 NIV.
i. honoring Jesus by shouting or even singing His praises?
e.g. In a loud voice they (angels) sang: Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain
to receive power and wealth and Wisdom and strength and HONOR AND GLORY AND PRAISE. Rev.5:12 NIV.
j. verbally ascribing to Jesus absolute worth?
e.g. JESUS: Lord of Lords and King of Kings; Alpha and Omega, The First and the Last, The beginning and the end. Rev.20:12
My Lord and my Ho Theos. Jn.20:28
Your name is to be praised O Emmanuel, Ho Theos with us! Mat.1:23
All power in heaven and earth is Yours; You created all things; and without you there was nothing made. Jn.1:3 And Your throne Ho Theos is forever. Heb. 1:8 May all angels and men worship you continually. Heb.1:6
Even so come Lord Jesus: Rev.22:20 Amen.
k. Worship of Lamb in heaven by all creation
13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and underneath the earth and on the sea, and all the things in them, saying: “To the One sitting on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever.” 14 The four living creatures were saying: “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshiped. NWT
WHICH ELEMENTS OF PROSKYNEO (ABOVE) DO YOU PRACTICE?
Whether or not one acknowledges an ontological unity between Father and Son, it is clear that Jesus accepted the title God (Ho Theos) as part of worship of himself. (Jn 20:28) and we should feel free to address and worship Him as such. Anything less would be to reduce the honor due His name; the name above all names; the name to which angels must bow and to which the Father declares: Thy throne O God (Ho Theos) is forever. After all, Jesus Christ is our Creator. Why would we not worship our Creator as God?
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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Vanderhoven7
Well phrased DJW, especially your last paragraph.
Let me add a bit to "our" question.
Why do you think God allowed or avoided preventing or perhaps planned that his full name to be completely excluded from all ancient manuscripts of the NT?"
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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Vanderhoven7
Jesus, the Way, the Truth and the Life is all but ignored at the kingdom halls of Jehovah's Witnesses and anyone using the actual name of Jesus more than that of Jehovah will be looked on with suspect.
Let's review
Who is the way, the truth and the life? (John 14:6)
To whose name would Christians witness? (Acts 1:8)
For whose name would Christians be hated? (Matt. 10:22)
For whose name would Christians be reproached? (1 Peter 4:14)
For whose name would Christians be persecuted and killed? (Luke 21:12,16,17)
For whose name would Christians make sacrifices? (Matt. 19:29)
By whose name alone were people be saved? (Acts 4:12)
By whose name were people healed? (Acts 3:6; Acts 4:10)
By whose name were demons expelled? (Luke 10:17; Acts 16:18)
By whose name would people receive Holy Spirit? (John 14:26)
By whose name would believers be named? (Isa. 62:2; Acts 11:26)
By whose name would people be reconciled to God? (Rom. 5:10; 2 Cor. 5:18)
By whose name would people be forgiven their sins? (Matt. 26:28; Acts 2:38; Eph. 1:7)
By whose name would people be resurrected (John 5:28)
In whose name would people pray to God? (John 15:16)
In whose name would people be baptized? (Acts 2:38, 8:16, 10:48, 19:5, 22:16)
In whose name were people to put faith? (John 2:23)
In whose name would people be judged? (John 5:27)
In whose name was Paul commissioned to preach? (Acts 9:14-16)
In whose name were Christians to gather together? (Matt. 18:20)
In whose name will every knee in heaven and on earth bend? (Philippians 2:10)
Jesus - not Jehovah
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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Vanderhoven7
Well it seems to me that some on this forum think that Jesus name is getting sufficient coverage and consideration at kingdom halls across the globe.
And when I say "name" I mean person, not merely a bunch of syllables.
My take is that Jesus is all but marginalized by so called Jehovah's Witnesses and relationship with Jesus aka Michael the super angel is not only not promoted but also not possible .
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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Vanderhoven7
@ Wondrment,
Why do you think God made sure His full name did not appear once in the NT, not once on the lips of Jesus nor the apostles?
My take is that God wanted His Son's name to be glorified among men above every other name that is named. So He made sure there was no salvation outside of that name; that unless we receive the Son we cannot be adopted as sons, and unless we eat His flesh and drink his blood we will have no life in us.
Jesus says: "Come unto me" while the Watchtower says, "Come to Jehovah's organization to be saved"
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33
Do you think the Watchtower is right about about eternal punishment of the wicked?
by Vanderhoven7 inatheists believe death is the end of personal existence.
but for those who believe there is life after death, what do you think is the nature of final punishment?
in other words do you agree with the atheists and the watchtower society or is there eternal ongoing conscious punishment awaiting the wicked.
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Vanderhoven7
Hi Ding,
I don't believe the account of Lazarus and the Rich man is a parable a la Watchtower. . But neither do I think the literary form is historical narration.
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33
Do you think the Watchtower is right about about eternal punishment of the wicked?
by Vanderhoven7 inatheists believe death is the end of personal existence.
but for those who believe there is life after death, what do you think is the nature of final punishment?
in other words do you agree with the atheists and the watchtower society or is there eternal ongoing conscious punishment awaiting the wicked.
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Vanderhoven7
There is a book available on Amazon entitled, "Eternal Torment - Image and Reality". I know the author well. The author goes through the entire Bible looking for eternal torment and here is his summary:
IN PART I OF OUR STUDY WE PROBED FOR ETERNAL TORMENT BY SIFTING THROUGH THE DUST AND ASHES OF:
A. Sheol (Old Testament)
- We found no hard evidence for ongoing torment in any of the 65 Sheol passages.
B. Hades (New Testament)
- We examined all 11 "Hades" passages, 10 of which gave no support for the idea of torment of any duration. Although we found one dramatic passage of scripture (Luke 16:19-31) that spoke very clearly of extreme pain and anguish after death, no clarification was made of the duration of that pain. In addition there was powerful evidence within the text itself that suggested the entire account did not represent historical narration.
C. Gehenna (New Testament)
- We looked at all 12 passages that used the term Gehenna. Although we didn't find any synonyms for pain or torment in any of the passages, we did find some rather perplexing imagery including; Everlasting Fire, Gehenna Fire, Unquenchable Fire and Undying Worms. However, all of these images, if interpreted in the light of other scriptural passages, can be readily explained without reference to ongoing suffering of any kind.
IN PART II OF OUR STUDY WE PROBED FOR ETERNAL TORMENT BY SIFTING THROUGH THE FIRE AND FLAME OF:
D. Old Testament Eschatology
The predominant punishment imagery of the Old Testament is unquestionably that of destruction. Endless torment of immortal souls is simply not found in the Hebrew scriptures.
E. The GospelsWe found considerable "weeping and gnashing" imagery in the exclusion parables of the gospel, which would be expected of the condemned as they are faced with rejection at Christ's coming. Nonetheless, the duration of that weeping and gnashing is consistently absent. Matthew 25, the parable of the sheep and the goats, speaks of eternal fire and eternal punishment. However, this language, by itself, does not designate the nature of that punishment. In order to prove eternal torment from this passage it would first be necessary to smuggle the word "conscious" into the text.
F. Acts and the EpistlesDestruction, rather than torment imagery, is rampant in the Epistles. Certainly, as would be expected, God's wrath will not spare the wicked vexation and distress on the day of judgment, but again, endless duration of such distress is simply not found.
G. RevelationThere is one explicit reference to eternal torment in Revelation 20:10 which is applied to the unholy trinity of devil, beast and false prophet. However, the literal nature of this torment becomes suspect as we consider the verse itself, the surrounding scriptures, as well as similar judgment imagery in the Old Testament.
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33
Do you think the Watchtower is right about about eternal punishment of the wicked?
by Vanderhoven7 inatheists believe death is the end of personal existence.
but for those who believe there is life after death, what do you think is the nature of final punishment?
in other words do you agree with the atheists and the watchtower society or is there eternal ongoing conscious punishment awaiting the wicked.
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Vanderhoven7
This is true. Their religion is not biblical. However even a broken analog clock is right twice a day.😄