Posts by Vanderhoven7

27

I’m a current elder ex bethel in London

by Mikejw in

jw
friends

i was in bethel for years early 2000s and was heavily involved with brd from start to finish .

im current elder in one of the congregations in london.

what i’ve noticed is huge changes since covid .

Vanderhoven7

Welcome to the forum Mike!

I trust you are aware that the majority on this site have concluded that the organization is not directed by holy spirit.

Hope you enjoy your stay here.

27

Resuming door to door September 1st

by Mikejw in

gb worried about not enough coming to in person meetings.

what are they going to be like when they realise not only jdubs don’t want to go to in person meetings but they really don’t want to go back on the min.

zoom has so much more appeal for rather than meetings or door to door.

Resuming door to door September 1st

by Mikejw in

gb worried about not enough coming to in person meetings.

what are they going to be like when they realise not only jdubs don’t want to go to in person meetings but they really don’t want to go back on the min.

zoom has so much more appeal for rather than meetings or door to door.

Vanderhoven7

"What are they going to be like when they realize ... jdubs don’t want to go to in person meetings?"

Increase the shepherding visits.

What are they going to be like when they realize not only jdubs don’t want to go out on field-circus?

Increase the bloodguilt rhetoric.

162

A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

by Fisherman in

obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

Vanderhoven7

In Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21, Jesus was talking about the people then living, not the WT manufactured 1914 generation.

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

The New Testament emphasis on is on Christ because there is no salvation apart from Him. Many people believe in God, but reject the Jesus of scripture and go about relying on their own righteousness to win God's approval. It won't work.

There is nothing wrong with doing good things and obeying God's moral standards as revealed in scripture. That is what God’s Spirit helps Christians to want to do. But the works themselves are powerless to save or sanctify. Only the blood of Christ can do that.

It is not what you and I can do that will make us right with God, but what His Son did for us at Calvary. We can't make what He did more beautiful.

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Vanderhoven7

Slim

Catch the context of Romans 10:13.

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.(Romans 10:13) Joel 2:32 is also quoted also by Peter, in his great Pentecostal sermon (Acts 2:21).

You can't apply Romans 10:13 to anyone who does not believe what leads up to it. That if you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Ro.10:9

Coming to Jesus, confessing him as Lord, believing in His death and resurrection, is the basis by which God saves and justifies sinners

Romans 10:13 does not work in a vacuum....or every religious Jew would be saved while rejecting Christ and His atoning work on our behalf. And the Apostles were wasting their time preaching Christ.

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Vanderhoven7

Calling on Jehovah will not help save anyone. It did not save the Pharisees and it will not save anyone else who does not call on and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.the only name under heaven whereby we may be saved. Yes, Jehovah’s name is in Jesus' name. So when you call on Jesus name, you are calling on Jehovah.

33

Do you think the Watchtower is right about about eternal punishment of the wicked?

by Vanderhoven7 in

atheists believe death is the end of personal existence.

but for those who believe there is life after death, what do you think is the nature of final punishment?

in other words do you agree with the atheists and the watchtower society or is there eternal ongoing conscious punishment awaiting the wicked.

Vanderhoven7

THE TRADITIONAL VIEW OF HELL ADVANCES THE FOLLOWING:

PREMISE 1. DURING THE INTERMEDIATE STATE the souls of the unrighteous deceased exist in a condition of unbearable torment in hell (Sheol/Hades).

PREMISE 2. AFTER THE FINAL JUDGEMENT the souls of unregenerate human beings will be sustained in a condition of unbearable torment in hell (Gehenna/lake of fire) for all eternity.

TWO QUESTIONS:

I. What OT evidence might have convinced Christ's contemporaries (the Pharisees) of the Traditional view of hell? (From Gen. - Mal.)

OT evidence that supports Premise 1.

OT evidence that supports Premise 2.

.

II. What NT evidence should convince contemporary Christians of the Traditional view of hell? (From Mt. - Rev.)

NT evidence that supports Premise 1.

NT evidence that supports Premise 2.

33

Do you think the Watchtower is right about about eternal punishment of the wicked?

by Vanderhoven7 in

atheists believe death is the end of personal existence.

but for those who believe there is life after death, what do you think is the nature of final punishment?

in other words do you agree with the atheists and the watchtower society or is there eternal ongoing conscious punishment awaiting the wicked.

Vanderhoven7

Why didn't God reveal the real punishment for sin before man sinned....

Oh wait, that's right; I guess He did when He said "Dust thou art and to dust thou shalt return."

33

Do you think the Watchtower is right about about eternal punishment of the wicked?

by Vanderhoven7 in

atheists believe death is the end of personal existence.

but for those who believe there is life after death, what do you think is the nature of final punishment?

in other words do you agree with the atheists and the watchtower society or is there eternal ongoing conscious punishment awaiting the wicked.

Vanderhoven7

It is interesting that the only clear reference to eternal torment in the entire Bible is found in Revelation, in a passage that is highly figurative, and in a verse which does not mention a single human person. Essentially then, the argument for eternal conscious punishment of unregenerate human beings, is an argument from silence. If literal perpetual torment was the punishment for human sin, I would expect to find numerous explicit and unambiguous references to it, such as;

And the wages of sin is eternal suffering in hell. Day and night for all eternity, the wicked will call out for mercy, but there will be none to save. Their immortal souls will writhe in endless pain. Their anger will never dissipate. They will weep and howl in the fires of eternity, aware of their loss, their endless future, with no one or nothing to comfort them. Jehosaphat 3:16

And I would expect to find such clear and unmistakable teachings in the Old Testament, in and outside hell. I would also expect to find them in the plain teachings of the New Testament; in the 'matter of fact' gospel sayings of Jesus, in the early gospel proclamations documented in the book of Acts, and finally, in at least some of the Pauline Epistles. I would not expect to have to base my position totally on ambiguous and enigmatic imagery from New Testament parables and other highly symbolic literary forms that require intensive interpretive analysis.